Hormone Prosperity Podcast with Dr. Kyrin Dunston

Dr. William Li | Eat to Beat Disease: The New Science of How Your Body Can Heal Itself

Welcome to the latest episode of The Hormone Prescription Podcast, where empowerment at midlife isn't just a dream—it's your reality! In this enriching episode, we're thrilled to bring you insights from the esteemed Dr. William Li.

Dr. Li isn't just any guest; he's a life-changing force in the world of medicine. From the prestigious stages of TED Talks to the informative panels of top news programs, Dr. Li has become the voice that's reshaping our understanding of health. His revolutionary insights have contributed to more than 40 medical treatments for diseases making waves in the waters of wellness.

But that's just the tip of the iceberg...

In today's discussion titled Eat to Beat Disease: The New Science of How Your Body Can Heal Itself, Dr. Li picks apart the essence of his New York Times bestseller which dives deep into the healing powers of food. This isn't a conversation about fad diets; it's a masterclass in how everyday nutrition can be your most powerful medication.

Imagine navigating midlife with a treasure map that leads to vitality and longevity. Thanks to Dr. Li, you won't have to imagine much longer as he reveals the inner workings of how the food you eat can help you combat illness, not just survive, but thrive.

For all you seekers of wellness and warriors of well-being, this episode is a beacon of hope, guiding you towards a life where diet isn't just about your waistline, but about staying one step ahead of disease.

It's time to get inspired and learn how to:

• Burn fat without starving yourself
• Heal your metabolism for good
• Use food scientifically proven to fuel longevity

Dr. Li's message is tailored not just for the health-conscious but for anyone who's yearning for control over their body's destiny. And for midlife women, this might just be the Hormone Prescription you've been waiting for.

Prepare yourself for a conversation that's loaded with practical advice, backed by rigorous science, and imbued with a dash of culinary magic. Are you ready to transform your midlife experience? Then grab a comfy spot, tune in, and get ready to Eat to Beat Disease!

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Featured in This Episode:

• Why your kitchen holds the key to disease prevention
• Dr. Li's groundbreaking research that's revolutionizing the medical community
• Strategies to nourish your body at the cellular level for lasting health
• A peek into Dr. Li’s latest literary masterpiece

 

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (00:00):

Natural forces within us are the true healers of disease. Hippocrates, stay tuned and find out your most powerful tool when it comes to mastering your metabolism at midlife with Dr. William Li.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (00:15):

So the big question is, how do women over 40 like us, keep weight off, have great energy, balance our hormones and our moods, feel sexy and confident, and master midlife? If you're like most of us, you are not getting the answers you need and remain confused and pretty hopeless to ever feel like yourself Again. As an OB GYN, I had to discover for myself the truth about what creates a rock solid metabolism, lasting weight loss, and supercharged energy after 40, in order to lose a hundred pounds and fix my fatigue, now I'm on a mission. This podcast is designed to share the natural tools you need for impactful results and to give you clarity on the answers to your midlife metabolism challenges. Join me for tangible, natural strategies to crush the hormone imbalances you are facing and help you get unstuck from the sidelines of life. My name is Dr. Kyrin Dunston. Welcome to the Hormone Prescription Podcast.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (01:08):

Hi everybody. Welcome back to another episode of The Hormone Prescription with Dr. Kyrin. Thank you so much for joining me as we dive in with Dr. William Li to talk about eating to Beat disease. Eat to Beat Disease is the name of his New York Times bestselling book on the new Science of How Your Body Can Heal Itself. He also has another book, Eat to Beat Your Diet, burn fat, heal your Metabolism, and live longer. Needless to say, he is an expert when it comes to what to eat, how to eat when it comes to improving your health, and he is super passionate about food. He loves to cook like I do. So we had a really great conversation I think you're going to enjoy. He is gonna talk a little bit about the quote from Hippocrates that I shared with you in the teaser, and also another one from Bruce Li and another one about what discovery actually consists of and how it can help you when it comes to creating great health.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (02:14):

I'll tell you a little bit about Dr. Li and then we'll get started. Dr. William Li is a medical doctor and internationally renowned physician scientists and author of the New York Times bestseller Eat to Beat Disease. His groundbreaking research has led to the development of more than 40 new medical treatments that impact care for more than 70 diseases, including diabetes, blindness, heart disease, and obesity. His TED Talk, can we eat to starve? Cancer has garnered more than 11 million views. Dr. Li has appeared on Good Morning America, C-N-N-C-N-B-C, Rachel Ray, and live with Kelly and Ryan. He's been featured in USA Today Time Magazine, the Atlantic O Magazine and more. He is president and medical director of the Angiogenesis Foundation and he's leading global initiatives on food as medicine. And he has a new book, New York Times bestseller, Eat to Beat Your Diet about burning fat, healing your Metabolism of living longer. And it was released in March of 2023. This is a super fan girl moment for me because Dr. William Li is amazing, personable, and passionate. I think you're gonna love him as much as I do. Please help me welcome Dr. William Li to the show.

Dr. William Li (03:29):

Well, thank you very much Dr. Dun, it's a real pleasure. Yes, it's

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (03:32):

A pleasure to have you here. I heard you speak at a conference a few years ago and I thought to myself, oh, I wanna have him on the podcast. That would be amazing. And you're very in demand. So I think it took me this long to <laugh> be able to get you on the show, but I'm super honored to have you here. Your books have transformed so many people's lives and really helped to move forward people's level of understanding about their diet, what they're putting in their mouths and their health, the outcomes they're getting. So I'm very curious, as a traditionally trained physician trained, how did you come to become so passionate and knowledgeable about eating to beat disease?

Dr. William Li (04:21):

Well, you know, those of us who trained in traditional medicine know how little nutrition actually is taught in medical school or during training, and that's certainly true in my own education. I had some secret sauce that I brought into the equation before I went to med school. I studied biochemistry in college and afterwards I took a gap year. And during my gap year before going to medical school, I traveled to the Mediterranean. I lived in Italy and I lived in Greece. And my interest all the way back then was in studying the interconnections between diet, culture and health. And what really interested me, and this is again, long before I went to med school, I was curious about how these cultures in Italy and Greece developed their food traditions and the seasonal eating that they did using whole plant-based foods, primarily long before these terms became popular and how much it meant to them culturally.

Dr. William Li (05:26):

In other words, people are eating, the children are eating what the parents are eating, who cooked what the Nonas or the grandmas are eating. And they passed these traditions and recipes down and it's been going on for hundreds of years. And, and that was really interesting to me because of my own background being Asian American. I grew up with cultural legacies that came from my own family and we saw lots of things mixing together, but I was always very curious about that link. And of course, being in the Mediterranean, I got to see people viewing food not outta fear, which is what we so often encounter. Oh, I don't know what I should eat. Should I be afraid of saturated fat? Should I be fearing dairy? Should I be fearing soy? I saw something completely different. And what I saw was people approaching food with joy.

Dr. William Li (06:16):

When people in the Mediterranean sat down for a meal, they usually sat down with company. And when they were, and the conversation they had inevitably when they were eating together was about the food that was placed in front of them and its tastes and the seasonality and how their mothers prepared or how their spouses would prepare the foods at home. And it made me realize as I then, you know, later went to medical school by contrast, how absent the idea of food and health in our culture and American culture was, and so I could never forget that. And as I memorized bugs and drugs, as you know, from medical training, my, you know, my, and as I observed all the terrible, crappy food and lifestyle, the diet, lifestyle of the medical student and the resident was just so terrible. I started to realize that there clearly was a missing piece of what modern doctors are trained on.

Dr. William Li (07:17):

And I think that the tide is changing a little bit, but here, hear me out for a second. What was missing was really the toolbox of the medical community. Before 1930, we had no antibiotics, we had no fancy drugs. You know, doctors going back in the beginning of the 19 hundreds and going back thousands of years really only had what was in the natural world and food and lifestyle as our only tools. And somehow in those last, you know, let's say 90 years, a hundred years or so, we lost sight of the fact that food is a tool in our toolbox. And so we have, we're training doctors to practice with inventions, medications surgery and radiation and all this other kind of stuff. And we've forgotten our roots and the roots of the food being a tool in the toolbox is so important because we now have the science.

Dr. William Li (08:13):

And I'm a scientist, I'm an internal medicine doctor trained for, for, you know, young and old men and women, healthy and sick. And I realized the huge wonderful opportunity was for people who had the scientific knowledge like me to dive, to do the deep dive, kind of like the, I could dive into the mosh pit of food using the same scientific rigor that we use for drug development to try to understand why foods are good for us, we know they taste good, now we have a better understanding of why they're actually beneficial as well. So I'm all about what foods to add and the new knowledge coming out of that rather than what foods to avoid. Although obviously there are some foods that one should avoid as well. Yes,

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (08:55):

Thank you so much for sharing that. You know, as you were speaking, a couple things came to mind. I recently watched a British series that I think took place in the 1800s. And whenever somebody felt ill, they gave them bone broth. They didn't call it bone broth, but they called it broth. Yeah. And so exactly what you're saying is something that I've observed and, you know, chicken soup, where does that come from? It's broth. Well, it's bone broth and then what you shared about traveling to Italy. And I have the pleasure of traveling to France with Walter Willette from Harvard. I think he's the author of, is it The French

Dr. William Li (09:34):

Paradigm? Yeah, I know Walter. Yes. Very good.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (09:36):

Yeah. And to study why they don't have the, the cardiac and other diseases that we have based on their diet. And so that was really fascinating. So you just said that picking your food from a joyful place versus a fearful place, which I love. And really focusing on what foods to add. So what has been most surprising to you in the research that you've done in terms of what foods to add?

Dr. William Li (10:05):

Okay, so the wonderful thing about being a scientist is that we're always surprised because we're at, you know, as a scientist, most people think that researchers, scientists spend all their time getting together and dishing brainiac rocket science on each other. But in fact, that's not what real scientists do. When we get together with other scientists, we spend all of our time talking about questions that we don't know the answers to. And so we don't actually talk about what we know. We talk about what we don't know. And so for me, the opportunity to do research on food as medicine is a wonderful opportunity to continuously being surprised by what we're actually discovering. Give you some examples. All right. We know that berries are healthy, right? I mean, colorful berries eat the rainbow. I love strawberries, I love blueberries, I love blackberries. They're, they're good for us.

Dr. William Li (10:58):

They're anti-inflammatory. I think most people would actually know that. Okay, well, when I first dove into this food as medicine world, one of the things that I did with colleagues at the National US National Cancer Institute, this, my colleagues were actually doing drug discovery, trying to find new cancer drugs. And so in that process you have, as a researcher, you're not aware of what you're testing. So they call it blinded or masked. So you have no idea what you're testing to be objective. And you would throw these chemical powders or liquids into a test system to see if they would starve cancer by cutting off the blood supply. All right? That's what this project was all about. And what I did in a, what was considered daring back then, I decided to sneak about 20 different food extracts into the system. So maybe there were 50 drugs to test, and I snuck 20 extras.

Dr. William Li (11:51):

So there were 70 site things to test, and literally we were testing food versus drugs head to head in the same system for cancer discovery and drug development. Okay? Cancer drug treatment. I was so surprised to discover that strawberry extracts contain something called ACH acid. So you don't have to be a chemist, a chemist, but just know that people that are doing the research, we're beginning to figure out what these substances are. Allergic acid is a powerful anti-cancer substance because it cuts off the blood supply that's actually growing that could feed a cancer cell. And we validated and tested this head-to-head with cancer drugs. Okay? Now that was a big surprise. Fast forward to just a couple of weeks ago, I was surprised yet again that other researchers have been studying strawberries looking at the same types of substances, the IC acid. And now we know there's another group of compounds called pro anthocyanins.

Dr. William Li (12:49):

And guess what they've been shown to do in clinical studies. This is a study from the University of Cincinnati where they looked at about 30 men and 30 people with mild cognitive deficits. So not full on dementia, but heading in that direction. And they found that one cup worth of strawberries per day over the course of six weeks could improve memory and cognitive performance. Amazing. Now, and that's the same substance. So here it is, you know, strawberries have activity in the Cancer Drug Act along the lines of a cancer drug. Strawberries have activities and a clinical study along the lines of helping people who are having cognitive difficulties. If that's not foodist medicine, if that's not real research being conducted, I don't know what is. And these are the kinds of surprises that I literally get out of bed, right? Roll out of bed, and I've got like one foot in the past, you know, the same stuff that you and I trained on Dr.

Dr. William Li (13:49):

Dunson, you know, the bugs and drugs as I call them. Okay? Right. And, and, and the other foot in the future, because this is what we're discovering how the mother nature's pharmacy, pharmacy with the f not a pH, the mother's nature's pharmacy, is more incredible than we ever imagined. And so this is why I think I'm surprised by tea. Green tea is good for you, but so is a super fermented tea called P or tea. Guess what? P or tea is even a probiotic tea that improves metabolism studied in human trials. Amazing. And so every day I am surprised by something and it makes me smile. And it makes me happy to realize that we are able to lean into the foods that we should be adding to our system and learning more about that and not just vilifying foods, which has been really kind of like the cave we've crawled outta.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (14:44):

Yes. You know, you mentioned poo or tea and I call it dirt tea <laugh> because it has a different taste, so you have to get used to it. But because of the health benefits, I remember when I first tried it, I didn't care for it, but I said, I'm gonna learn to like it because it's good for me. And now I love it. So I think that what are a lot of people's objections to eating in ways that are healthy? You know, I don't know anybody listening when's the last time they ate a fresh strawberry or a fresh green green or had something like a poo or tea. But people say it's expensive. They say it's time consuming. It's not convenient. They say it doesn't taste good. So how do you, you've done this beautiful research and really shown that these foods can help and bring them into your diet. These other foods maybe you wanna eat less of, but the practicalities of those cost in terms of time, financial expense, and then also the dislike. How do you help people get past those?

Dr. William Li (15:55):

Sure. Okay. So I wrote two books that became New York Times Best Sellers. Yeah. Eat to Beat Disease and Eat to Beat Your Diet. And one of the things that I did as I wrote each book is I created tables and charts of foods that have been scientifically and clinically shown to be beneficial to help boost your body's health defenses. These foods make you healthier, okay? And the evidence and the science proves it. Okay? So, but I took all the, I did all the heavy lifting for my readers. And so the tables and charts are there. What I tell people to do is if you take, if you crap go of my books and you just take a photograph, screenshot of the tables and charts, and please take a sharpie or pencil or, or whatever you're writing with highlighter and circle the foods among those 300 that you already like, you know, maybe some people don't like green beans or Brussels sprouts, but maybe they like peaches or maybe like berries.

Dr. William Li (16:51):

You know, if you start circling these things, I always say I have not found anybody over the last four years. I've been challenged that couldn't find something, some foods, in some cases, many foods, but they're circling like crazy. And I said, guess what? You have just won the lottery, the food and health lottery because you've circled the foods that are already good for you and you like them. You've said that you like them. So if you start eating healthy foods that you already like, you are way ahead of the game. 'cause You're, you already like the foods that are good for you, start with that. Go to the grocery store. And, and so that's one way of actually addressing the like versus dislike. I'm starting with you and I'm trying to find out in a very personal way, what are your taste preferences? Everyone's different. Everyone's got their comfort foods.

Dr. William Li (17:35):

Everyone, you know, everyone can remember something that mom cooked when we were kids that we actually really resonate with. That's cool because you're almost certainly going to find something good, and you're gonna find something that's healthy. Now, that's one thing. What about the cost? Look, there was once this idea that you have to eat organic and you have to eat local and you have to eat fancy stuff. Turns out that the research is showing that the dirt cheap stuff, not just dirt tea, but dirt cheap foods is actually good for you. Yeah. Nuts and seeds, you know, walnuts, pecans, almonds, all those kinds of things you can buy in bulk. You know, go to one of those big discount stores and buy them in bulk. Great for our gut health, which then improves our metabolism, helps our fat hormones, helps all kinds of other aspects in our lives. Lowers cholesterol. It doesn't have to be expensive.

Dr. William Li (18:26):

One of the least expensive things I can think of that I actually like and I, and I put into my own shopping cart is not fancy pants at all. I love navy beans. All right, Navy beans. You go to the middle aisle and you just get a can of this stuff. They're pretty inexpensive. Navy beans have lignins, they've got great soluble fiber. They eat super fast, super cheap, crack a pan, the crack thing over there, rinse 'em out. Okay? I rinse all that cloudy stuff away from it. All right? Stick 'em in a pot. Heat 'em up, throw some inexpensive herbs that you can get outta your pantry to light it up a little bit. And you got yourself a gut healthy meal that's good for your gut microbiome, shown by evidence that it's not only inexpensive, it actually works to improve your metabolic health.

Dr. William Li (19:16):

So I think that, you know, if you take a look at healthy food, it's not only for the 1%. I think in fact the elemental foods, the things that used to be widely available to everyone are, can actually be really, really healthy, including dried foods, which tend to be healthy. You can store them longer, you can buy them in bulk. And that's totally fun. Here's something a lot of people don't realize. I know that it's true that eating mostly vegetarian, all vegetarian, you don't have to be vegan, but a mostly vegetarian diet is gonna be healthier for you. But if you eat seafood, okay, you don't have to go to the fancy fish market to buy expensive line cuts, whatever. Okay? If you go to the middle of the grocery store and you just carefully look for little tins of fish, I'm not talking about cat food.

Dr. William Li (20:06):

Don't go, don't go to the pet food section <laugh>, okay? I used to think canned tuna was cat food because it smelled exactly like what we'd feed a cat. But there is a, in the Mediterranean, there's a long history of tinned foods, tinned sardines, tinned mackerel, tin tuna. They put a little extra virgin olive oil and they added some spices and herbs. They might put some like piquillo peppers or something in, you can find these in a grocery store and they're not expensive. You can buy a big pack of them, you can put 'em in a pantry. And man, do they make a tasty Omega-3 healthy oil final. Not only the Omega-3 fats, but also olive oil when they're cooked with that, you can just put that with a piece of crusty sourdough bread and have some raw carrots and you put yourself a real snack.

Dr. William Li (20:53):

And you know, wherever the girls, the girls dinner or the girls meal, like they talk about something like that, can be inexpensive and incredibly tasty and healthy for you as well. So I always tell people, don't let price be the obstacle. There's lots of things that are inexpensive that anyone can actually afford. Okay? And then the other issue about convenience, all right? I think that if you look on the internet today, you pick an ingredient, beans, kale, tomatoes, what have you, nuts, tree nuts. And if you want to actually find something, a simple way to do it, you don't need to bust open that old yellowed thick book that your mom used to keep around as a cookbook, right? <Laugh> passed around for generation, you, you know what I'm talking about, right? Yeah. All you gotta do is to go on a Google type ingredient, you know, collars or kale and type a recipe and type simple, how about 15 minutes, alright?

Dr. William Li (21:48):

20 minutes and hit search and type, click on the video and watch somebody show you how to do it. All right? It's easy to do. And so I think that we should, and by the way, there, I, I have to tell you, as somebody who enjoys cooking, I'm not only a scientist and a doctor, I actually love cooking. But to me it's joyful. It's relaxing. I get some time by myself, I'm creating something. Listen, if that actually fits your personality as well, there's nothing better than knowing that you're eating and feeding your loved ones, then your friends and family as something that you put together. And you know everything that you put into it, and you can make those decisions for other people and it tastes great. So again, I hear you point out the exact same things that lots of people talk about as obstacles to healthy eating. And from my perspective, they're not really obstacles at all. You just have to look at them in a different way.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (22:41):

I love that answer and I wholeheartedly agree. I was blessed to be raised by a mother who actually was a trained chef. She trained with Anne-Marie Colman at the Natural Gourmet Cookery School in New York. And Anne-Marie was one of the pioneers in teaching people how to cook mostly. I don't think she dealt with meat at all, actually. It was vegetarian, healthy, tasty meals. So I learned at a young age how to cook healthy food. Of course, I went off to medical school and I came back and told my mother, ' we heal with steel mother <laugh>. 'cause I thought I knew better. It wasn't until I had my own health challenges that I went back to her and then really started to pay attention to how she cook healthy food that is delicious with healthy ingredients and, and really learns how to do it in an efficient, cost effective manner. Yeah. So I think it's something, it's a skill that anyone can learn. And abso you described beautifully.

Dr. William Li (23:42):

Absolutely. And you know, listen, if you know how to change a tire in your car or put in or change your oil in your engine, if you know how to fix the gutter or the, or, or the, the drain sink, if you know how to plunge a toilet, you can actually, you're, you're smart enough to know how to actually cook something tasty. And I like them. I I love the idea. I don't know, I, I don't know if you're saying healing with steel, it refers to cookware, but like, you know, but oh, <laugh>. But, that's another way to think about it. You know, like, look, you don't have to go to the hospital and sit in the waiting room, you know, to be called by the nurse. I think that there are, look, I'm, I, we're both doctors and so I'm quite confident that we're on the same page.

Dr. William Li (24:26):

There are medical issues that you must go to your doctor for and communicate with your doctor for, and that only your doctor can really solve for you because it's not something you can really tackle at home. But on the other hand, healthcare, and I think you'll agree with me as well, it doesn't happen in the doctor's office or the hospital. Healthcare is what we, what people deliver for themselves between visits to the doctor's office, between visits to the ER, to the hospital or the infusion clinic or wherever you're going. You care for yourself. We do medical interventions, you know, in a doctor's office, we can do assessments, but the care for your health is what we do for, to all of ourselves at home. And, and food is just, you know, one of the several important things, because obviously we can't just think about this over simply.

Dr. William Li (25:14):

I mean, you've got exercise, you've got stress management, you've got sLip socialization, all things that are part of self-care. And, and look, everybody out there is in the world now, you know, in this new era of self-care, right? Where we know not to overwork ourselves, we know not to overload ourselves at work. Self-Care is really sort of a new era where we are taking responsibility for the amount of stress that that either we put in ourselves or other people, people put in ourselves. I think nutrition and eating well, and importantly, eating the things that you like that are healthy, all right? It's gotta taste good. That's how our, and it's just another thing to really think about and cultivate for yourself.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (25:59):

Yes, I am saying that 2024 is the new self-love and self-care. It's like the next level. It's time to bump it up a notch and really make self-love an action word. It's a verb. And really meeting your needs and your wants and your desires to a high level, including your diet. I do know that a lot of women listening are dealing with what I call midlife metabolic mayhem. The 60 plus symptoms that women start experiencing over 40, the top two being fatigue and weight gain. So they're gonna wanna hear something from you about your second book, eat to beat your diet, how you heal your metabolism, burn fat, and live longer. So can you talk a little bit about the challenges for all of us, but maybe particularly for women over 40 with their metabolism and what's happening there and how they can work with their diet to assist them?

Dr. William Li (26:58):

Yeah, well listen you know, if you're a woman in your, in a, in the middle of your life and you're struggling with the actual issues or the questions about weight gain, weight management, fatigue, you know, all the things that, well, I think most people recognize, dread and maybe even accept that they're gonna have to contend with as they get into their forties and fifties and, and later in their lives. I have some good news. First of all, my book, Eat to Beat Your Diet, is not a diet book. That's a trick title. It's an anti-D diet book. I wrote a book about how you don't need to go on these intense, crazy diets that might actually help you lose a few pounds or maybe even more than a few pounds, but you can't stick to them. But how you can instead use the latest thinking about human metabolism, about body fat and the connections to our hormones or to our energy levels, to our ability to live rich, fulfilling lives in a way that we didn't recognize before.

Dr. William Li (28:01):

And let me explain this in a way that I think people can understand. All of us probably do something pretty similar, right? You get up in the morning, roll out of bed, take a shower, come out of the shower, and you're drying off and you probably got a mirror in the bathroom and out of the corner of your eye, you probably see on your naked body a lump or a bump that you are not happy with. It doesn't matter if you're a big person or a small body person. We all see this stuff, right? And then what's the thing you do? You go cur you curse. Like, ugh, I don't wanna see that. Then the next thing you do is what? Step on the bathroom scale. And that number that comes up isn't the one that you are hoping for you to curse again, all right?

Dr. William Li (28:38):

First thing in the morning, you've cursed yourself twice, right? And if this sounds like a familiar story, and I'm exaggerating a little bit, but I think most people resonate with it. 'cause I do the same thing. I used to do the same thing. We kind of associate our weight with our health. We associate body fat with something very negative. And we always talk about negativity and body fat. Look, we're, so, it's maybe part of our human nature. I don't care if you're a vegan or not, but if you actually go to a grocery store and you're wheeling, you're pushing your cart around and you're gonna be pushing it by the meat section, a butcher section, and you see that gigantic t-bone steak that's got like a thick rind of white fat around it. I don't care if you're like a, if you're, if you're like the, the biggest meat eater in town, everyone goes, Ugh, I hope nobody eats that.

Dr. William Li (29:25):

Right? So we're conditioned to think about body fat and the word fat in very negative ways. But what I wanna tell people in their middle age is that we don't always think about it, we don't always think about fat negatively. There's one situation I can tell you, everyone sees fat and smiles and you know what that circumstance is? That's when we see a baby or we see a pudgy baby. Mm-Hmm, you know, newborn, 1-year-old, big fat cheeks, double chin, rollie, polly tummy, <laugh>, you know, big fat arms and legs. You're smiling right now, right? I'm, I'm not smiling saying it, right? We, that's one situation in which fat makes us feel happy. So think about what that means. Somewhere in our brain, we recognize that body fat is actually a good thing. In fact, if you saw a baby that was long and thin, like a fashion model, like a runway model with thin thighs and thin arms, like, like sharp chiseled cheekbones, <laugh>, you'd be freaked out.

Dr. William Li (30:22):

You'd be freaked out, right? You go, you would, you would, you would run the other way. You would say, there is something seriously wrong with that baby, and you'd be completely right. Okay? So to understand body fat and metabolism and hormones in middle age, it's really helpful to do, to go, go way back and realize what body fat does for us when we're younger. Now, a lot of people don't know this, but our body fat and our hormones are really tightly interconnected. And our body fat and our health meaning good health, beneficial health, are tight, tightly, tightly tied together. All right? Now I gotta explain this. Most people don't know this, but if you go back, Dr. Duston back to med school, you remember we were sitting in embryology class and they were teaching us about how humans from dad sperm meets, meets mom egg, mom's egg and AEB of cells.

Dr. William Li (31:13):

And we had to memorize all the things that actually happened. Well, when the organs form, all right, one of the first organs that form are blood vessels. And that makes sense because every organ's gonna need blood flow to remain alive. The next tissue that really forms are nerves. 'cause That's the electrical system of the house of your body. And we all need electrical wires to power up our organs. All right? A third tissue organ that forms is body fat. Body fat is one of the early first organs that form. And by the way, at this point in our lives, we don't have waste lines. We don't actually have chins yet. We're still kind of forming our overall shape as humans. And you know where the body fat forms is as a ring around blood vessels. So when body fat starts forming, it forms as a cushion around our blood vessels.

Dr. William Li (32:07):

And you go, why would that be? Why is body fat forming on blood vessels? Well, it turns out, and we now know this, that our body fat, which is sometimes called adipocytes, adipocytes, adipose tissue, so we know, call fat tissue, these adipocytes the cells of fat around are living around blood vessels because each of these fat cells, adipocytes, are actually fuel tanks for the energy that we need to run our body. And where does the fuel get loaded? Into the fuel tank from our blood vessels? Because the food that we eat goes into the fuel, goes into the blood vessel, and the blood vessel loads them into the storage tank, which is our fat cells. And that's why fat starts forming around the blood vessel. So all around our blood vessels, all throughout our body, there's fat that actually starts forming. Now obviously the fat forms elsewhere as well, but it shows you just how important body fat is.

Dr. William Li (32:58):

Now, later in life, as we develop as teenagers, I mean, look, little boys and girls, five year olds, seven year olds, pretty much they look all the same, right? They're, they, they have the same body type, but later during adolescence, puberty, hips form, breast form, chests form, you know, facial features start reforming as well. That's where the future adult us begins. We start to look like the future adult who we're gonna be. And our body composition changes and fat starts moving in different places to where it needs to go. And we've got three kinds of fat that form, all right? And I'm telling you this because people who are middle age need to understand fat didn't form because you had too much to eat over Thanksgiving dinner, okay? Or that you went to that restaurant and you had, you know, you had too much on your plate.

Dr. William Li (33:43):

This is actually fat that is healthy fat. I'm talking about three types of fat that form, even when we're young teenagers and into young adults, you know, kind of the best shape of our lives. We've got subcutaneous fat that's under the skin sub under cutaneous skin fat. That's kinda like a wetsuit that protects us, that's healthy, helps to shape us. Then you've got visceral fat, which is gut fat, visceral meaning gut packed inside the tube of our body. So if you think about it, you could have a thin tube or you could have a big tube. People with large bodies have big tubes, but even people who are thin, who are thin, have thin tubes. And when, and the visceral fat can, it grows inside the middle of the tube of the body, you can't see in the mirror. All right?

Dr. William Li (34:28):

It's not the muffin top, it's not the double chin. It doesn't wobble under your arm. It's deep inside your gut. All right? And you need some of that. And then there's brown fat. And this is something that I think is really interesting is that brown fat, which we used to only think was in animals and babies, is a thin layer of fat. We're not talking about wiggly jiggly wobbly fat. That's not under your arms. Brown fat is quite different. It's paper thin, wafer thin, and it's pressed not close to the skin, but close to the bone deep in our tissues. We got some of it behind our breast bone. We got some of it around our neck. We got some of it a little bit in our belly, some of it behind between our shoulder blades. Brown fat is like an engine, like the stove top in your kitchen that uses gas.

Dr. William Li (35:16):

You want to blow some water. What do you do? You turn the crank, it goes click, click, click, click whoosh, you get the flame going on. That's what brown fat does. Brown fat metabolically whooshes fires up to create heat, right? For our body, and it draws that energy from our white fat, starting with a visceral fat, which so that you, so we, our fat controls fat. Now what happens? And there's all kinds of hormones that a fat is normally producing. This fat, healthy fat produces at least 15 different kinds of hormones. Adiponectin is one, is one that even helps our body absorb insulin and, and helps us release insulin and draw in our glucose so we have energy. So I'm bringing this up because people complain about not having enough energy. All adiponectin gives us our energy because it takes the food that we're eating and stores that energy into our fat cells.

Dr. William Li (36:09):

All right? And then we burn off that fat cell when we move around, and that's what gives us energy in our brain, in our muscles, everything. Okay? Now what happens is that if you actually overload the body's fat stores, if you overeat, you put too much fuel in your body, your body, like unlike a car where if you put too much fuel and it just splashes right out of the fuel tank, what does it do? Run down the side of your car, around the tires, and pool around your shoes. Now you're standing in a dangerous, toxic, flammable mess, right? In a gas station in your body, if we actually overload fuel, okay? By overeating, we just make more fuel tanks, those fuel tanks being fat cells. And so we, the more we eat, the more fuel we store, the more fuel we store, the more fuel tanks we need, the more body fat we need to make.

Dr. William Li (36:54):

And that's really why over consumption of food, good or bad actually will lead to more body fat being created. And the body fat that gets created, you can see it in the mirror, okay? Those are the lumpy, bumpy things, or they can actually grow in the center of your body around visceral fat. This is the fat that wraps around all your organs, because when you overeat and you have too much fuel and you've got too much fat wrapped on your organs, that fat becomes starved of oxygen. It becomes inflamed. It's like a forest fire that gets ignited inside your belly, you can't even see it. It's steep inside. And that inflammation rushes out throughout your body. And what it, one thing it does is it inflames fat upsets the, it derails the hormones like the fat hormones, like adipokines adiponectin. When that hormone gets derailed, you can't use it, you can't absorb your fuel.

Dr. William Li (37:48):

Well, and guess what? Now even though you have, you're loaded with a lot of fuel, you're not using a lot of fuel, you are tired, you're fatigued. So gaining too much weight leads to fatigue, inflammation accompanies it. All right? So overeating is one of these things that we need to really be careful about. Now, the other thing that happens in middle age, people go, oh, my metabolism's gonna slow down. There's something I can do about it. It's my fate, right? And indeed, people's bodies change. Women and men, but especially women, I think they notice it a lot more when your body shape changes, when you hit your mid forties and into your fifties you know, I don't know what I can do and I'm looking just like my mom did. All right? So the fact of the matter, it used to say, I've gained too much weight because my metabolism has slowed down.

Dr. William Li (38:31):

Nothing I can do about it. Right? Wrong. We used to think slow metabolism causes excess body fat, but in fact, it's the other way around. Too much body fat slows down your metabolism. And we know this from a seminal research study that was conducted just in 2021, published in the Journal of Science, one of the most credible journals in the world, where they found that all humans only undergo four phases of metabolism in their life and in the middle phase of metabolism. All right? So when you're born, everyone's born with the same metabolism. One year old, it shoots straight up from one 8-year-old to 20 years old. Your metabolism comes down to adult level. And then from 20 to 60, this is exactly where middle age occurs. 40, 45, 50, 55. Human metabolism is designed to be rock stable. It is not hardwired to go down. We are not programmed from birth to have a slow metabolism.

Dr. William Li (39:28):

We hit our middle age. And so anybody listening to this, you gotta realize everything that we thought has just been the story has been changed because we now realize that we are, our bodies are hardwired. It's our birthright to have a normal stable metabolism in middle age only at age 60, 60 to 90 slows down a little bit, okay? But not huge. It slows down a little bit. Now, what happens is that if you gain extra body fat, if you have extra fuel consumed, all right, and you're not moving, and that extra fat causes the inflammation disrupts the hormones, the fat hormones we're talking about here, you know, dip, pectin, ghrelin, I mean, these are all kinds of lectin. These are all hormones that are affected by, that are needed and healthy for us when we have the right amount of body fat and energy.

Dr. William Li (40:14):

But when we have too much of it, not only does that slow down our metabolism, but the excess inflammatory fat derails our hormones. When you derail these hormones, it's literally taking a train, okay? And just chucking it off the rails. Now it all, all heck breaks loose. And now you don't know if you're hungry or not hungry. Well, maybe I'll just eat some more. No, you know, you're eating more food now, you're eating more fuel. It's making everything worse. And then it, and the excess body fat slows down your metabolism. So the explanation for people who are middle reaching, middle age to say, I'm fatigued. I'm gaining weight. I don't know what to do, I don't think I have a choice. One of the things that modern research is showing us is that number one, you can actually try to restore your body's metabolic setpoint.

Dr. William Li (41:01):

It might take time to do it, but one thing to do is actually to burn down excess body fat. And to do that, you want to eat less e even intermittently fast and be a good way of doing it. Second, you wanna eat good quality food. 'cause You don't wanna be eating food that's just gonna blow up that inflammatory fat. You wanna eat good quality food, less of it, stay away from the ultra processed stuff, the added sugars, the added, you know, carbs. Then what you wanna do is exercise. You wanna stay physically active. You know, a body in motion stays in motion as the old law of thermodynamics or physics. And so you wanna actually stay in motion walking exercising. You don't need a trainer. You just need to stay active. You're gonna be burning down some of that extra fuel. You need good quality sLip because our metabolism burns down extra fuel when we're in REM sLip. Good quality sLip. All right? Now, why, by the way, why is all this not happening to us? Why is it so difficult to do this when we are in our mid forties, for women watching this? Think about it, how complicated our lives are at middle age when you are 20. You know, you might be struggling with various things, ideas, but you might have seen something like a mountain, but really a mold hill compared to what you're dealing with in your 40 bucks, all right? Yes.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (42:15):

Right?

Dr. William Li (42:16):

Okay. So back then you were working out, you were looking good, you were fitting into whatever clothes you wanted, and you had plenty of energy and you know, you could do whatever you wanted and you didn't seem to gain weight, but you're active, all right? Now, fast forward the decades, and now you're in your mid forties. We got so much going on, all right? And I'm just trying to talk to people like, you know, who are listening, like, like real people, right? I mean, look, you got your spouse to worry about. You got stressors with your family life. You got your kids to worry about, you got your mortgage, you got your job to worry about, your boss worried. You get your car payments. And then, oh, by the way, if you follow anything in the news, we're worried about the election, worried about the war, worried about, you know, what kind of sickness is going on.

Dr. William Li (42:58):

Look, there's a lot of stressors going on, okay? And those stressors make it really hard for us to focus on making good decisions about the food. We choose quality food. Those distractions make it very difficult to eat smaller quantities, smaller portions. In fact, they're so distressed, so stressed out, we eat a lot. Those distractions make it hard to exercise and stay active. Those stresses prevent us from getting good quality sLip, which interferes with metabolism. So it's not that our fate is hardwired in our body, and when you hit 45, that's it, baby, you're screwed. No, the reality is that we got a lot going on. So we have to sort of tease apart some of the things that are gone and start to just calm down a little bit and make the, some of the good decisions, starting one by one that can help our body reset to the metabolism, to the fat, to the hormonal interactions that our body needs to give us energy, to give us the shape that we want to have, and to be able to allow us to live and thrive as we get older.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (44:01):

Yes, thank you for that very comprehensive, detailed explanation. I think everybody probably got a lot out of that. And really the way you're describing it is that the communication has completely gone offline because of your current metabolic condition. And there are things that you can do to restore proper communication, right? I always say hormones are the communicators and you can get them reestablished. I loved inter, I love intermittent fasting and exercise and many of the other things that you've shared. Thank you so much for sharing this wisdom with everyone. You make it sound very approachable and doable by almost anyone, which it is. And so I love that. We'll definitely have links to your books in the show notes. You have a wonderful Dr. Li's Friday five handout, which we'll have a link to in the show notes. You wanna tell them a little bit about that and where else they can find you online?

Dr. William Li (44:59):

Yeah. Well, listen, my mission is to get good information about people's bodies and how food interacts with them in a joyful way. That's my mission, is to really impact as many lives as possible. So I have a website, Dr DR William Li l i.com. Please come to visit my website, take a look at the information that's on it. My books Eat to Beat Disease. You can buy them anywhere books are sold. You can order them online very, very easily. I do courses, I have online courses you can find on my website. I run them every month. And this is a deep dive into your body and the foods that can activate your body in ways that are delicious and effective so that you don't have to fear your food. You can love your food and love your health at the same time. And I'm, and I put out newsletters.

Dr. William Li (45:44):

These are free newsletters that you, or just contain facts and information. And you know, I'm inundated with information all the time. I just wanna get, I wanna do the heavy lifting for the public. For you guys who are listening, I'll, I'll try to, you know, bury the stuff that's BS and I'll try to surface the stuff that's really useful that you should know. The difference between medical research involving drug development and biotech and pharmaceuticals is that, you know, even if you hear about that stuff, you can't do anything about it. Most of the people in the public, but if you, for food is medicine research, when there's something important there is immediacy. I told you that eating, you might be surprised. Soy foods, like at a Mame or tofu can lower the risk of breast cancer, or tomatoes can lower the risk of prostate cancer if you're a man. Hey, guess what? That is something that after you hear that you can make a decision right away lickety split to add something good to your health. And so please know, I welcome people to my community. I've been teaching these online courses. We've got thousands of people from more than 80 countries that have taken my course. And so I, I just love the idea of trying to create as much impact as possible. And thank you for having me on. Well, thank

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (46:58):

Thank you for being here, and thank you for listening to another episode of The Hormone Prescription with Dr. Kyrin. I know you have loved today's episode. I know you're gonna add strawberries to your diet. I know you're gonna add tomatoes. I know you're gonna look at Dr. Li's books and read them and get some powerful information. Maybe join one of his courses. And really, your most powerful tool when it comes to your health and your hormones is the food that you put in your mouth. I cannot say that you literally are what you eat. Your hormones are what you eat, you are what you eat. So this is the most powerful tool that you have at your disposal to make powerful changes in your health for this year. Like I said, 2024 is the year of self-love. So do it right, make it an action. It is a verb. Take the actions that will get you where you want to be. Thanks so much for joining us, and until next week, peace, love, and hormones, y'all.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (48:00):

Thank you so much for listening. I know that incredible vitality occurs for women over 40 when we learn to speak hormones and balance these vital regulators to create the health and the life that we deserve. If you're enjoying this podcast, I'd love it if you give me a review and subscribe. It really does help this podcast out so much. You can visit the hormone prescription.com where we have some free gifts for you, and you can sign up to have a hormone evaluation with me on the podcast to gain clarity into your personal situation. Until next time, remember, take small steps each day to balance your hormones and watch the wonderful changes in your health that begin to unfold for you. Talk to you soon.

 

► Get Dr. Li's Friday 5! Top science-backed recommendations, including healing foods, studies, podcasts, supplements, and more. Sign up now to get this FREE newsletter weekly. CLICK HERE.

 

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Dr. Akil Palanisamy | Your TIGER Protocol For Solving Autoimmunity & Health Dysfunction

Welcome to another empowering episode of The Hormone Prescription Podcast, where we explore the intricate dance of hormones and health, specifically crafted for the vibrant midlife woman.

Today, we're honored to have the remarkable Dr. Akil Palanisamy, join us to unravel the mysteries of autoimmunity and health dysfunction through the lens of integrative and Ayurvedic medicine. Get cozy and ready to be inspired by a Harvard-educated expert who takes a deeply compassionate and holistic approach to healing.

Episode Highlights:

• Introduction to Dr. Akil Palanisamy: Discover the fascinating path that led Dr. Aki, a Harvard grad and a mind-body medicine-certified physician, to the forefront of integrative health.
• The TIGER Protocol Explained: Learn about the groundbreaking TIGER Protocol that Dr. Aki has pioneered, offering hope and healing to those suffering from autoimmune disorders.
• Integrative Medicine and Ayurveda: Delve into a unique conversation on blending modern medical practices with ancient Ayurvedic wisdom.
• Real-life Success Stories: Hear uplifting stories of resilience and recovery, showcasing the transformational impact of Dr. Aki's approach.
• Practical Tips for Midlife Wellness: Arm yourself with actionable advice and wellness strategies tailored for the midlife transition, ensuring you live your healthiest, most hormonal-balanced life.

Inspirational Takeaway:

Dr. Akil's expertise isn't just in his impressive credentials; it lies in his ability to see the patient as a whole. His methods are a testament to the power of integrative medicine - providing a beacon of light for anyone navigating the murky waters of hormonal health and autoimmunity.

Tune in now to begin your own healing odyssey with the wisdom and warmth of Dr. Akil guiding the way. This episode is not just about listening; it's about awakening to the possibilities of true health renewal.

Listen, Learn, and Thrive:

Your body's plea for harmony between your hormones and health has been heard. Dr. Akil's knowledge and the TIGER Protocol could be the key to unlocking your body's fullest potential.

Don't miss this life-altering conversation. Tune in, tap into your innate healing power, and take charge of your well-being. Your miraculous body awaits.

Subscribe and Listen Now!

 

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (00:00):

There is no greater thing you can do with your life and your work than follow your passions in a way that serves the world. And you, Dr. Akil , stay tuned to find out how to reverse the root causes of your autoimmunity and health concerns so that you too can follow your passion.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (00:20):

So the big question is, how do women over 40 like us keep weight off, have great energy, balance our hormones and our moods, feel sexy and confident, and master midlife? If you're like most of us, you are not getting the answers you need and remain confused and pretty hopeless to ever feel like yourself Again. As an OB GYNI had to discover for myself the truth about what creates a rock solid metabolism, lasting weight loss, and supercharged energy after 40, in order to lose a hundred pounds and fix my fatigue. Now I'm on a mission. This podcast is designed to share the natural tools you need for impactful results, and to give you clarity on the answers to your midlife metabolism challenges. Join me for tangible, natural strategies to crush the hormone imbalances you are facing and help you get unstuck from the sidelines of life. My name is Dr. Kyrin Dundton. Welcome to the Hormone Prescription Podcast.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (01:14):

Hi everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Hormone Prescription. Thank you so much for joining me today as we dive into the topic of autoimmunity with Dr. Akil, who is a very accomplished physician who had his own healing journey during medical school that led him to a root cause resolution approach. He focuses on autoimmunity and helping people reverse it naturally. You're gonna hear some of his case studies of how he helped someone reverse Hashimoto thyroiditis, probably the most common autoimmune disease that disproportionately affects women as opposed to men and causes a lot of suffering, and how he helped her transform to not having Hashimoto's. Yes, it's possible despite what you might have heard, and you're going to hear just lots about what are the steps you need to take from his tiger protocol that he's developed. It applies to everyone, not just those of you with autoimmunity.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (02:14):

So I hope you will give a listen and take notes and check out his book. We've got a link to get a per an excerpt from it in the show notes and talk a little bit about this quote that I shared with you at the beginning about living your passion. He shares what that means to him and how that informs his daily life and activities that I think you'll really love. So I'll tell you a little bit about him and then we'll get started. After working with patients in his two decades of practice, Harvard trained Dr. Aki Palani me was inspired to develop the tiger T-I-G-E-R protocol, an integrative treatment approach. Combining his work as a functional medicine practitioner with his training in Ayurvedic medicine, he has since used his simple protocol to successfully treat thousands of patients with autoimmune diseases. The protocol works to address the root cause of your autoimmunity instead of just treating the symptoms by suppressing your immune system. And that's what mainstream medicine does. It's a revolutionary transformative approach that can help you transform your health and your life as well. Please help me welcome Dr. Akil  to the show.

Dr. Akil Palanisamy (03:26):

Thank you so much Dr. Dunston, for having me on.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (03:29):

So excited to talk with you about the tiger protocol. I always like to start because people love to hear how traditionally trained doctors like you and me. Yes. Arrived, became enlightened and <laugh> became enlightened, saw the truth, the angels sang, we saw a better way. We really started people healing and doing things like reversing autoimmune disease. And so could you share a little bit about your journey from traditional mainstream medicine to a more root cause approach?

Dr. Akil Palanisamy (04:03):

Yeah. It actually began in medical school for me when I developed a mystery illness during my second year of medical school. You know, I was actually very conventionally thinking, very conventionally trained, didn't have a real awareness of integrative medicine, but I had kind of this mystery illness with chronic pain and fatigue, and it, it was so bad that I couldn't sit up in a chair and I had to actually take a year off for medical school to try to recover. And it was that time that I started exploring integrative medicine and complementary therapies, and that was the first thing that really helped me after a few years of conventional medicine. So that helped me during my year off to return to really optimal health. And I realized that I needed to learn this stuff so I could help my future patients with it.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (04:52):

And so could you share a little bit about what you went through with that mystery illness and what you discovered Yes. That it was causing it?

Dr. Akil Palanisamy (05:02):

Yeah. So the symptoms were, you know, started with fatigue and then I developed a lot of musculoskeletal issues like neck pain, back pain. You know, I couldn't sit up in a chair, and so I couldn't attend class, and I was doing all the conventional treatment, you know, physical therapy, anti-inflammatories and so forth. But it was only when I saw an Ayurvedic doctor, which is Ayurveda as a traditional medicine from India, that she told me I have a specific imbalance of a dosha, which is one of the Ayurvedic principles. And that actually tied together all my symptoms that I was having. Whereas in Western medicine, there was no diagnosis and never was, because there's no clear diagnosis that ties together all those symptoms. But when she started treating me with an auric diet and, you know, lifestyle and spices and herbs and a whole program, you know, lifestyle program as well, then that was the beginning of recovering my health.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (06:02):

Wow. I mean, I'm sorry that you went through that and it, you know, I I always say pain becomes your purpose, and it's only through pain, unfortunately, sometimes that we learn the truth if we're willing to lean into it and not just snuff it out. I always say that Mm-Hmm, <affirmative> yes. Symptoms that our body has is, you know, she's this beautiful vehicle that we have. She only has so many ways that she can let you know what she's needing and wanting and what's out of balance. And she's always talking to us. So a headache is not, she's not saying I need Tylenol, is that's not what a headache means. And <laugh>, you know, if your tummy gets upset every time you eat, it's not, oh, I need something to stop my gut from being able to contract like an antispasmodic. And so right, everybody listening, I really encourage you to start learning the language of your body and understand what she's saying to you so you can get to the root cause and get out of the leaves and branches of the tree and stop medicating with drugs and surgery. So thank you so much for sharing that. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>. So I, let's dive into your book on the Tiger protocol you've developed. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, a very specific detailed root cause protocol to help people with autoimmune disease. Was autoimmunity at all a part of the illness that you were suffering from?

Dr. Akil Palanisamy (07:29):

No, fortunately but you know, over the years, in the past 25 years I've been practicing, I've just started seeing more and more autoimmune patients and wondering, you know, why there is such an increase in autoimmune disease. So it's really just organically through my own practice, I started seeing more and more autoimmune patients.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (07:51):

So is the tiger protocol developed with, from you working with them and really seeing what was specific to their needs and situations that needed to be addressed in order for healing to occur?

Dr. Akil Palanisamy (08:03):

Yes, exactly. And, you know, with these same five root causes, the more I researched, the more I found that it, they're actually driving most of our modern chronic diseases, you know, diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, which is still the biggest killer of, of most men and women, obesity and also disrupting hormones. Because I, in my practice, I do work a lot with female hormones in, in women. And so I found that, you know, these five root causes not only affect autoimmunity, but all these other chronic conditions and hormones especially.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (08:36):

Right. And I would love it if you could comment on the fact that women suffer with autoimmune immune disease way more than men. We are disproportionately represented with autoimmune disease. And why do you think that is?

Dr. Akil Palanisamy (08:50):

Yeah, I think it's probably several reasons. So, you know, as we're going to go through the tiger protocol, we can see that toxins affect women more than men because of, for example, xenoestrogens, which we can get into. Same thing with the, with the gut. You know, a lot of the gut bacteria have a big effect on estrogen, which we can discuss. And that, you know, the key role there. And then with stress the, the R part, you know, rest and managing stress, I think that is also very fundamental in terms of its effect on multiple hormones. And I think, you know, we need more research to confirm this, but I think that because women are more complex in terms of their hormone chemistry, that more of these factors in our modern life are attacking and disrupting more and more of their hormones than in men. And I think that's one of the reasons autoimmunity is more common in women.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (09:48):

Yeah, I would agree. I really think it boils down to, down to hormones, <laugh>, and that's foundationally what makes a woman different from a man. And so that's what puts us at risk for so many of these problems. So let's jump into the tiger protocol. I know that each letter stands for an issue that needs to be addressed. So if you just wanna start at the beginning, we can dive right into it. And I wanna just tell everybody listening, don't discount what we're gonna talk about and say, I don't have an autoimmune problem, this, they're not talking to me. Everything that Dr. Akil  is talking about and details in his book, actually is an issue that every woman at midlife, early life, later life, needs to address to address the root causes of any dysfunction that she is suffering from. These are really the root causes of all health problems.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (10:46):

Whatever your diagnosis, whatever your symptoms. So if you think about your health like a tree, the symptoms and diagnoses you may have are up in the leaves and branches, and that's where mainstream medicine works. You go to the gastroenterologist for a gut problem, and you might get a drug or surgery for that problem. You go to the gynecologist for a female period problem, and you might get a drug or surgery for that problem. But where we're dealing with is we're going down the trunk of the tree into the roots of the tree in the dirt, and dealing with the root causes of all your leaf and branch problems. So everything we're gonna talk about applies to everyone. So I just wanna give that caveat. So without further ado, let's dive into the tea in tiger.

Dr. Akil Palanisamy (11:32):

Yes, sounds good. Yeah. So the tea stands for toxins, which are environmental toxins that are present in our food, water, air, you know, that all of us are exposed to. And when I was researching toxins, I found a class of toxins called obesogens, which are known to promote obesity. So these are things that disrupt our metabolic signaling, you know, the intricate hormones like leptin and ghrelin that regulate appetite and satiety. So many of these toxins the broader category is called EDCs or endocrine disrupting compounds. So they disrupt our endocrine system, which is the hormone system that we've been, we've been talking about. So for my women who are really struggling to lose weight I feel like that's one of the missing pieces of the puzzle is addressing these obesogens, you know, helping clear out those toxins that are promoting obesity.

Dr. Akil Palanisamy (12:26):

So that's, I think, a really key factor. Also, in toxins, there are ens. So these are toxins that promote insulin resistance and raise your blood sugar, again, a key cause of our diabetes epidemic. It's not just obesity. There's also a key factor of toxins that are disrupting your insulin and disrupting your blood sugar regulation. And we have to really address those as well. And then specifically for women, I talked about xenoestrogens. So these are compounds in our, you know, fragrances, pesticides, other chemicals. We put our body widely present in plastics, for example. And these are artificially created compounds that mimic estrogen. And so they're absorbed by the body. They disrupt the estrogen signaling and lead to, you know, a host of issues. So I, and of course, autoimmunity, which is the fastest growing category of disease, is included as well. That's what I focus on. But in my research, I found these toxins affect so many other key conditions like obesity, diabetes, heart disease, as well as just general inflammation in the body. So that's why I believe that's why I put the T first. 'cause I think toxins are really fundamental and maybe the first thing to be addressed.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (13:47):

Yeah, I totally agree. And, you know, I just wanna tell a little personal anecdote. So I really, uhhuh, the biggest thing I think people can do in this area to start reducing their toxic load is to stop using artificial petrochemical fragrances all over your body and in your house. Just stop <laugh>. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>. Yes. And really there isn't an awareness of the dangers of these artificially scented products in the environment. So I, every, a lot of people know I've been traveling for 18 months globally, and I've had a lot of experiences where I go into new homes and stay in new homes. And there are plugins and scented candles and sprays and all the things that people use 'cause they like the way it smells. They use it on their dryer sheets with their towels and the sheets smell like perfume. And my body.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (14:40):

I say that I'm a human chemical detector because of various circumstances I've encountered throughout my life where I was actually made sick by a building. Now I'm a human chemical detector. So I walk in and before I even smell it, my body tells me that it's there. Mm. And so I've had the opportunity to talk with people about, and try to educate them about the dangers of these, they're carcinogenic as well as contributing to health problems. And it's interesting how many people are very resistant to this information, not knowledgeable. And I'm just wondering if you have any thoughts on that, or, and I know you've got way more details in the book, but what would you say is the number one thing that people can do to start reducing their toxic load?

Dr. Akil Palanisamy (15:24):

Yes, I think that it, you know, it always starts with diet because I believe food is really fundamental. So I think, you know, trying to choose organic, so you're limiting the pesticide exposure. And then you don't have to have everything organic. You know, you can go with the environmental working group, which publishes a list called the Dirty Dozen, which is the 12 fruits and vegetables that are highest in pesticide, where you should try to get organic. And then they also publish the clean 15, which is the 15 that are pretty low and can be non-organic if possible. So I think that's a great way to start. And then to boost the detox pathways, I really like the cruciferous vegetables, all the, you know, broccoli, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts, those are, are very powerful. And then I think sweating like a sauna or steam room is really underutilized because there is very good research on sweating and how it excretes toxins through the skin, which is a really great way to, to help detox and keep the toxic level low.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (16:26):

Yes. Those are great suggestions. And how does this relate to hormones? 'cause We always try to tie everything to hormones.

Dr. Akil Palanisamy (16:34):

Yes. So mainly in that, you know, all of these things that we've been talking about as toxins, like the endocrine disrupting compounds, the obesogens, the ens Z estrogens, all of them are disrupting this delicate balance that in women is critical, you know, because I always tell women it's like a symphony, you know, with all the female hormones that every piece is critical. And there's many different components that have to be in sync to, to make the perfect music, you know, the optimal health. And all of these toxins are disrupting that symphony. So that's why it's so important to address, you know, reducing the exposure and also boosting things to detoxify so you can have a, you know, better symphony and better music in the end.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (17:18):

Right? Yeah. A lot of these toxins actually stimulate those hormone receptors in negative ways. They sit right on the receptor and really confuse your body. Yes. So super important. So that's the T in tiger. And then what is the, I,

Dr. Akil Palanisamy (17:33):

So I refer to infections, and this is a broad category. There's many different types like a bacterial, viral, fungal and, and so forth. And there's many ways that infections disrupt hormones. One of the ways is by causing elevated cortisol, which is one of the stress hormones because of infection. I'm not talking about acute infection things like, you know, flu or you're down with a cold and you, you're really sick. I'm talking more about low grade chronic infections, which can be detected by an integrative medicine doctor. And those can slowly cause stress on the body. And any stress on the body raises cortisol. And that has a variety of negative effects, which we can talk about when we talk about stress, which also raises cortisol. But I think that, yeah, infections can really disrupt the hormones by raising cortisol. And then, for example, another example would be candida, the yeast overgrowth. So candida often is an issue that is, you know, overgrown and surprisingly has really negative effects on hormone balance. When you have the overgrowth of candida, it actually breaks down progesterone and contributes to estrogen dominance. This is, you know, air emerging research. But a lot of these infections are starting to be studied for their negative effect on hormones.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (19:03):

Yeah. So these chronic infections like candida, Epstein Barr virus Yes. Just dysbiosis in the gut where you don't have enough healthy bacteria and it's kind of skewed towards some of these less healthy ones. I, I think it's important 'cause some people listening are gonna say, great, I get it, Dr. Akil , I need to address toxins, infections, and all the other things we're gonna talk about. And they're gonna run to their $30 HMO copay doctor. And they're gonna say, right, well, I've heard Dr. Akil  on Dr. Kieran's podcast, and I want you to check me for these infections that are contributing to my autoimmune disease and MIT toxins, and I want you to help me with that. And what's gonna happen, <laugh>.

Dr. Akil Palanisamy (19:45):

Yes. Yeah, no, exactly. I think it's you know, it's variable in terms of how much a typical conventional doctor will do or, or test. But I think that the good thing is what I focus on is really teaching people tools they can use at home on their own with, you know, diet and, and lifestyle. And, and with the topic of infections, my focus in the book is teaching people how to make your body inhospitable to infections, because then you can actually let your immune system work better to take care of whatever's there. So you don't have to do, you know, all of these tests. So there are ways to focus more on the terrain, the inner environment of the body to make it less hospitable to infections. And I think that's more of a root cause approach.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (20:32):

Yeah, I agree. But I just don't want anyone listening to think that the average doctor with the education that we initially had is gonna be able to help them. So this is where your book comes into play. So yes, in, you know, I know this might be really inappropriate, but I met a woman when I was traveling and her name was Candida, and it just stuck in my head. 'cause When I met her, I thought, I wonder if she's had problems with having that name. Because I think of one thing when I hear candida and it's chronic infection, <laugh>. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> that actually, and you know, the, as a gynecologist, what would we do if someone said that they thought they had a yeast infection? We do a wet mount and look for yeast or candida in the vagina. But I always like to say to people that if you have chronic candida, it might not be on, I say it lives in your gut and it goes on vacation in your vagina. So, right. You know, if you get chronic candida infections, that means you've got a reservoir in your gut of where it's really living that's chronic. So that's what you gotta look at. Alright, so that's the T and then the I and tiger. And then how, what do we get with the G?

Dr. Akil Palanisamy (21:42):

Yeah, the gut is really critical. And the microbiome refers to all of the 40 trillion bacteria in the gut that have a really big effect on every organ system in the body. Pretty much if you name a, a part of the body, it's affected by the gut and the hormones are, are no exceptions. So I'll just pick three to focus on in terms of hormones and good gut. So first is the thyroid. So the very important gland that regulates your metabolism energy and so forth. And one of the key ways that the thyroid hormone in the body works is there's a conversion that needs to occur from what's called T four to T three, basically some of the, the active hormones. And about a quarter of that conversion happens in the gut microbiome. So if you're not having a good balance of bacteria, then your production of the active thyroid hormone is really gonna be limited.

Dr. Akil Palanisamy (22:35):

And that's a, that's gonna affect energy and weight and all of these things. So that is number one, the thyroid. Number two is melatonin. So we know this is important for sleep. And melatonin is produced from one of the precursors called serotonin, which is a neurotransmitter or a signaling compound. And actually about 80% of the body's serotonin is made in the gut, which then gets processed, you know, into melatonin and so forth. So all of these neurotransmitters which affect the brain, a lot of them are made in the gut. And that's what we call the gut brain axis. And then finally, I'll mention estrogen because there's a huge role of the gut bacteria, what's called the estrobolome, which are the bacteria that process and metabolize estrogens. And one of the key things, it's a little bit technical, but just bear with me here. It's called beta glucuronidase.

Dr. Akil Palanisamy (23:30):

So this is an enzyme that your gut bacteria have. And with, you know, with estrogen, it has to be just the optimal level, not too much or not too little. And the body has a system called estrogen recycling to kind of regulate that, which goes through the gut. And the beta glucuronidase, which is in certain bacteria, actually disrupts that. So the beta glucuronidase is an enzyme that de conjugates estrogen that is in the gut that's marked for excretion, you know, supposed to be flushed out of the body through the, the poop, and it allows it to be reabsorbed into the circulation. And then you can get, you know, estrogen dominance or too much estrogen. And that balance of recycling estrogen is disrupted by the gut bacteria. So again, if you have the, you know, imbalance of gut bacteria, it's going to be affecting not just estrogen balance, but your thyroid, your, you know, melatonin, you so many, so many things. So I think the gut is really foundational.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (24:30):

Yes. So what do you say to someone listening who says, I don't have a gut problem, and they immediately shut down? Yes. And don't, I'm not gonna listen to this. My gut is like, works like magic. I poop every day. It's quiet. I don't have any symptoms. I don't have a gut problem. So then you say, improve your gut health. And what do you say to that woman who tells you, no, I, I don't need to look at that. I don't have a gut problem.

Dr. Akil Palanisamy (24:56):

Yes. And a lot of women I see in my practice are in that category. You know, fortunately they don't have GI symptoms, generally have good gut health and don't really expect to have any GI imbalances. But I always test their microbiome. You know, I always look in there and pretty much most of the time we find imbalances. And, and often, you know, the body is very resilient, so it's able to adapt and overcome a lot of imbalances and, you know, prevent you from feeling bad. But it doesn't mean those imbalances aren't there. And so what I found in my experience, when we start looking, there are imbalances, for example, in the, you know, the bacteria or the beta glucuronidase or some of those things. So that's why it's key, even if you are healthy without GI symptoms, to really focus on trying to boost your gut bacteria and really make sure they're optimal.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (25:48):

So I love how you said that you test everyone, right? And I do too. I say, even if you don't think you have a gut problem, you need a functional stool test, food sensitivity, testing, et cetera. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. So can you talk about the importance of testing for hormones, for gut health, for mitochondrial function, for all the things that you think it's important for?

Dr. Akil Palanisamy (26:10):

There is a way, like for my patients who cannot afford functional medicine stool testing, there is a way through a regular lab to get an indirect measurement of the microbiome. So I do order this a lot. It's called a stool pH test. And it can be done through any traditional lab, you know, LabCorp quest, any lab in the us. And what a stool pH tells you is that it's an indirect marker of your gut microbiome, because the main determinant of that is your gut bacteria and specifically certain metabolites they produce called the short chain fatty acids. So if they're producing the right compounds, your pH will be really good. And that is a great way to gauge, you know, indirectly how the microbiome is doing. And then all of the things that I talk about in the book, like the prebiotic foods, fermented foods, certain specific types of fiber, all of those things can improve the stool pH.

Dr. Akil Palanisamy (27:07):

And then also the stool pH is a key factor for your immune health for reducing infections. You know, for example, candida can only overgrow if your pH is out of balance in the stool, in the gut. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>. And same with a lot of bad bacteria. That's one of the ways your body keeps those bad bugs in check is by keeping the pH in a really optimal range. So that's a great way to test. And so I think for pa patients who don't have access to a functional doctor, that is something you can get through a regular lab. It's a standard test.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (27:38):

Okay. Awesome. Love that. And let's go through E and R and then as we do, I would love it if you could just incorporate any examples of patients that you have worked with who maybe were suffering with the E or the R in particular. Yeah. And kind of what their journey was like to healing, but yeah, please proceed.

Dr. Akil Palanisamy (27:59):

So of course it is a big topic in terms of eating right and, you know, the diet. And so in general, yeah, I'm recommending a plant forward diet with plenty of, you know, whole foods. And so let me discuss three things which I think are negative in terms of their effect on hormones. Number one being sugar. So, so, you know, we all know that processed white sugar is inflammatory and has a really negative effect on the immune system as well as some of the metabolic hormones. And, you know, yes, occasionally like dark, dark chocolate, an occasional treat I think is fine. But in the long run, trying to cut back on sugar, I think, is really beneficial. So mainly because inflammation is at the root of all of our modern diseases and sugar has been linked to increasing inflammation in the body.

Dr. Akil Palanisamy (28:49):

And then second, I think they are processed foods. So a lot of the heavily processed and ultra processed foods that are present in our food supply right now, I think they, a lot of them have ingredients that are known to be disruptive, like preservatives, emulsifiers, artificial flavors or sweeteners. And so I think that's a category as well to, to really be mindful about. And then third, I wanted to mention dairy products because not everyone is sensitive to dairy. I think that it's important to test it out, maybe eliminate it for some time and then reintroduce, see if you notice a change. And so for women who do not have a sensitivity or allergy to dairy, this might be surprising, but from the hormone perspective, it's actually better to have full fat dairy rather than low fat. Because there was actually a study from Harvard where they looked at 18,000 women and their dairy intake pertaining to fertility.

Dr. Akil Palanisamy (29:48):

And they found that those women who had more low fat dairy products actually had worsened fertility and were more at risk for infertility. And in that case, also having full fat dairy, like normal un unprocessed dairy was associated with better fertility. And so in that study, they recommended women trying to conceive, you know, not have low fat dairy because it's actually potentially negative. And that goes back to processed foods because, you know, dairy as a whole, food does have that fat and has to go through a lot of processing to make it low fat and, you know, skim milk and all that. So if a woman tolerates dairy, I do recommend going with the whole fat and just in moderation, but avoid the low fat dairy. So yeah, those are just some, some examples. But, you know, there's so much we could talk about in terms of yes, p food, of course. Yeah.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (30:39):

I love that study. I wasn't aware of that. And I would just encourage everyone, fat is your friend, right? All your cells are coated in fat. Your brain is fat. You need fat. And, and a lot of us in the eighties were really trained that fat was our enemy. And fat is not. It's your friend. Sugar is your enemy, but fat is

Dr. Akil Palanisamy (30:57):

Your friend. <Laugh>. Yes, yes. Yep.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (31:00):

And then how about the R in tiger?

Dr. Akil Palanisamy (31:02):

Yes. So the R refers to rest, which encompasses sleep, and also managing stress. And stress has so many effects on hormones. So one, one of the main ways is through cortisol, which is one of the stress hormones and chronic stress, like many of us deal with that, you know, very full busy lives. But if it's out of control it causes high levels of cortisol chronically, and that disrupts a number of the other hormones. So that will cause, for example, testosterone to drop. And even women need some testosterone, you know, for normal function also, then it disrupts the thyroid. So then you start seeing thyroid hormone dysregulated, and then chronic stress can also lower estrogen and progesterone levels. So it just is something that affects almost every hormone. And you know, of course stress disrupts blood sugar regulation as well. So insulin is another hormone.

Dr. Akil Palanisamy (32:00):

So I think it's very important. Sometimes, you know, my patients, their eyes glaze over when I talk about stress. 'cause We've all heard so much about it. But I, I tell people to think, focus on something you enjoy, whether it be going out in nature or doing some yoga or Pilates or prayer or, you know, it doesn't have to be meditating for an hour every day, but finding something that you enjoy, that you're willing to do regularly is, is the key thing. And there's a lot of different ways to accomplish that. So. Great.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (32:29):

So there we are at the Tiger Protocol, and I would love it if you could share some stories of people you've worked with, maybe the autoimmune diseases, Hashimoto's Lupus Yes. Multiple sclerosis and what their journey has been like through this protocol.

Dr. Akil Palanisamy (32:45):

Oh, sure. Yeah. So a case comes to mind of a nurse at our local hospital. She was in her forties and dealing with Hashimoto's and thyroid condition. And a lot of the common symptoms of Hashimoto's are fatigue, weight gain, and hair loss. And then, you know, with autoimmune diseases in general, they do develop slowly. So there's a key window where integrative or preventative strategies can really help. And she was in that case where her thyroid hormone levels like TSH were just going slightly high, but not at a level like greater than 10, where her doctor was gonna put her on medication, but it was abnormal. And so her doctor told her her thyroid levels don't qualify for a medication, so there was nothing he could do. And then he said, you know, your immune system is going to destroy your thyroid, and then at that point, come back and I'll prescribe you the medication.

Dr. Akil Palanisamy (33:42):

And, you know, that didn't really sit well with my <laugh>, my patient who was used to being very proactive. So she came to our, you know, integrated medicine clinic, and she didn't want to just wait for her thyroid to fail and then get medication, you know, she wanted to do something more proactive. And in her case, we did some testing. We found that she did have IBS or irritable bowel syndrome, which had not really been addressed. And when we did some stool testing, we found she had this condition called the leaky gut, which is increased intestinal permeability, and that's a key factor in autoimmune diseases. She also had bacterial overgrowth, what we call dysbiosis. And so I put her on a gut healing program with a lot of fermented foods, bone broth, and prebiotic foods, which feed the good bacteria. And then we looked at her hormones.

Dr. Akil Palanisamy (34:35):

So commonly, like in thyroid conditions, the adrenal hormones are affected because there's a close link between the thyroid and the adrenal. And so I used certain herbs like ashwagandha, which is a, ashwagandha is a common urban Ayurveda, and used a lot to support the thyroid and adrenal. And then she started noticing some of her symptoms improving, like her fatigue, the hair loss, the IBS, you know, those, it took about, you know, three or four months because integrated medicine worked slowly, but some of those symptoms that were really bothering her had been resolved. And then after working together for about more, you know, six to seven months, we retested those Hashimoto's antibodies, the thyroid antibodies, and found they had come down into normal. So she no longer had Hashimoto's, you know, autoimmune disease. Yeah. So that was one example where, you know, just taking steps to address the root causes can, in some cases reverse the autoimmune disease and at least improve the symptoms. You know, even if it's not possible to cure the condition, people can feel normal and, you know, have a good quality of life.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (35:48):

I, I think it's so important to highlight what you just said and the example you just gave, because people are really given this kind of death sentence by a lot of doctors because, and, and they're just telling their experience and what they've been taught that Hashimoto's, once you have it, you're always gonna have it. It's gonna destroy the thyroid. There's nothing we can do. And it's not, it's just because they don't know what's possible. But every day I see people go from very high Hashimoto's antibodies to no antibodies, right? Every day I see people go from having diabetes type two and go to not having diabetes and having optimal insulin and glucose control. And probably you do too. So I want everyone to hear that diseases can be reversed. And you didn't hear him mention any drugs in there, right. <Laugh>.

Dr. Akil Palanisamy (36:45):

Right. So

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (36:46):

Just naturally it can happen. So thank you for that. I, I want to highlight this quote you shared with me that I love, because I think you really exemplify it. And to me, I love helping women get healthy because I want them to feel better. Yes. And function better, but I always say I'm kind of sneaky because I really want them to live their passion in life, whatever that is. Yes. And you really can't live your passion if you don't feel good. So the quote is, there is no greater thing you can do with your life and your work than follow your passions in a way that serves the world. And you, and I'm just wondering, is that a quote from you or somebody who you admire?

Dr. Akil Palanisamy (37:29):

No, I had, you know, written it down during my medical school years, you know, when I was dealing with that illness, and I was going through a lot of depression and really despair. So because I was, you know, it was my dream to become a doctor, and here I was to stop my training. And so I really had to seek out inspiration. And I don't remember where I found that quote, but that is in my journal that I've kept for many years. And yeah, that was a key part of how I think now.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (37:56):

I love that. And how does that, what does that look like in your daily life? How does that change what you do? Or how you do what you do? What does that look like?

Dr. Akil Palanisamy (38:06):

Yeah, I think for me, you know, really like teaching is my passion. And I think a lot of medicine, as you know, is really teaching and, you know, sharing with our patients. But I really wanted to do more teaching. So you know, this with my second book, the Tiger Protocol, you know, getting out there, being on podcasts such as this one and, and talking to patients. I also have started doing these group visits, shared medical appointments where I also do a lot of teaching. So that for me is really something I get excited about.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (38:35):

Yes. And I can't remember if it's the word physician or doctor. One of those words means teacher, and it really is <laugh>.

Dr. Akil Palanisamy (38:44):

Yes, exactly. Doctor, I think. Yeah, yeah,

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (38:46):

Yeah. What we, what we are. And so I love that you are living your passion of teaching and helping others. It's my passion too. So from one person who's passionate about helping people see the truth about their health and learn the truth, and find the path towards health and wholeness and a passionate life to another, I thank you so much for joining me on the show today. I think you've offered such valuable information, and I know inspiration as well to a lot of women who are feeling hopeless, and I know they've learned something that they can implement today. I'm gonna encourage them to check out your book. I know you have a free excerpt, what we're gonna have a link in the show notes to, but tell them all the places they can connect with you online, where can they find you, and what resources you have available

Dr. Akil Palanisamy (39:37):

Through my website, dr Akil .com. And then I am pretty active on some social media channels like Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok, as at Dr. Akil  on all three of those. So,

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (39:50):

Great. Thank you so much for joining me today, Dr. Akil .

Dr. Akil Palanisamy (39:54):

Thank you so much, Dr. Dunston. I enjoyed our conversation today,

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (39:57):

And thank you for joining me for another episode of The Hormone Prescription with Dr. Kieran. I know that you have learned something that you can put into effect in your life today. Don't wait to start moving towards greater health and wholeness for yourself. I look forward to hearing about it on social media so that you can start feeling better and then move towards living what you're passionate about in your life. Thanks so much for joining me, and I'll see you next week. Until then, peace, love, and

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (40:29):

Hormones, y'all. Thank you so much for listening. I know that incredible vitality occurs for women over 40 when we learn to speak hormones and balance these vital regulators to create the health and the life that we deserve. If you're enjoying this podcast, I'd love it if you'd give me a review and subscribe. It really does help this podcast out so much. You can visit the hormone prescription.com where we have some free gifts for you, and you can sign up to have a hormone evaluation with me on the podcast to gain clarity into your personal situation. Until next time, remember, take small steps each day to balance your hormones and watch the wonderful changes in your health that begin to unfold for you. Talk to you soon.

 

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Kaely McDevitt | Why Minerals Are Vital To Hormonal Prosperity

Welcome to The Hormone Prescription Podcast, the heart-to-heart space where we unravel the tapestry of women's health! 💜 In our latest enlightening episode titled "Why Minerals are Vital to Hormonal Prosperity," we are joined by the incredibly knowledgeable Kaely McDevitt, a Registered Dietitian dedicating her life to the well-being of women.

Key Points Discussed:

• The Mineral-Hormone Connection: Discover how minerals are the unsung heroes in the choir of hormones. 🎼 They conduct the symphony that determines your energy, fertility, and overall hormonal balance.
• Reclaiming Your Energy: Learn about the specific minerals that can turn the tides on fatigue and give you back your zest for life. ✨
• Optimizing Fertility: Kaely shares her expertise on how strategic nutrition can support reproductive health and make the dream of parenthood achievable for many. 👶
• Conquering Hormone Symptoms: Find out which key players in your diet can help you take control of hormone-related symptoms from PMS to menopause. 🛑
• Personalized Nutrition Strategies: Take a deep dove into the world of tailored nutrition and how personalization leads to health transformation.
• Building Health with Connection: Kaely emphasizes the importance of connecting with self, nature, and community on the road to hormonal health. 🌿

About Kaely McDevitt:

Kaely McDevitt is not just any dietitian; she's a trailblazer in the realm of women's health, armed with a passion for natural wellness and a deep understanding that there's no one-size-fits-all when it comes to health. 🌱 Through her virtual practice, she and her team have cultivated an oasis where women can find answers, hope, and a path to reclaim their energy and vitality.

Why You Shouldn't Miss This Episode:

Take command of your hormonal health by tuning into this episode. Whether you're someone battling with hormonal imbalances, searching for fertility support, or simply thirsty for knowledge on women's health nutrition, this conversation with Kaely will be a beacon of insight and inspiration. 🌟

Step into a world where minerals and hormones dance in harmony, where personalized nutrition is the key to unlocking the mysteries of your body, and where healing comes with an empowering sense of community. This isn't just about health; it's about thriving in every sense of the word!

Listen Now!

Find your sweet spot in the world of health and hormones by listening to this must-hear conversation with Kaely McDevitt. Tap into the wisdom, comfort, and practical guidance that will propel you towards hormonal prosperity.

Pour a cup of tea, find a cozy corner, and hit play! 🎧 Listen now and infuse your life with the balance and vitality it deserves.

Sharing is caring! If this episode sparked a light in you, spread the love by sharing it with your friends, family, and community — because every woman deserves to sing a hormonal harmony. 🗣️💕

 

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (00:00):

You have to participate relentlessly in the manifestation of your own blessings. Elizabeth Gilbert, stay tuned as Kaely McDevitt tells you why minerals are vital to hormonal prosperity and the manifestation of your own blessing.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (00:18):

So the big question is, how do women over 40 like us keep weight off, have great energy, balance our hormones and our moods, feel sexy and confident, and master midlife? If you're like most of us, you are not getting the answers you need and remain confused and pretty hopeless to ever feel like yourself Again. As an OB GYN I had to discover for myself the truth about what creates a rock solid metabolism, lasting weight loss, and supercharged energy after 40, in order to lose a hundred pounds and fix my fatigue. Now I'm on a mission. This podcast is designed to share the natural tools you need for impactful results and to give you clarity on the answers to your midlife metabolism challenges. Join me for tangible, natural strategies to crush the hormone imbalances you are facing and help you get unstuck from the sidelines of life. My name is Dr. Kyrin Dunston. Welcome to the Hormone Prescription Podcast.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (01:11):

Hi everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Hormone Prescription. Thank you so much for joining me today as we dive in with Kaely McDevitt, who's a registered dietician into minerals. And I know there's the alphabet soup nutrients and it can be hard to keep track of them. And you're like ki Now you're gonna get into the real nitty gritty. Yep. We're gonna get into the nitty gritty, but she's gonna make it super simple because is hormonal balance and hormonal prosperity necessary? Absolutely. But if you don't have the right co-factors for those hormones to be able to get into the cell first, to get to the cell, then to get into the cell, then to be used by the cell, then it's kind of pointless to try to get to hormonal prosperity. So you've got to address your mineral repletion. There are some essential ones that you need to really pay attention to and why.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (02:14):

We're gonna talk about why it's best to get from your food and supplements, which ones are most important, first, second, and next. Where are the pitfalls when it comes to balancing and repleting your minerals? And we're gonna talk about this amazing quote from one of my favorite authors, Elizabeth Gilbert and one from Fitch, not Han, that will help you in your life. Kaely's gonna share part of her journey from poor health to vitality and really serving and her purpose in this lifetime because isn't that what we all want after all? Yeah, I know you want that. You sure do and you deserve it. So I'll tell you a little bit about her and then we'll get started. So Kaely is a registered dietician, as I said, specializing in nutrition for women's health. And she owns a virtual private practice where she and her team help their clients reclaim their energy, optimize fertility and overcome hormone symptoms through personalize nutrition. Having experienced the pitfalls of a conventional approach to women's health firsthand. I know a lot of you can relate, I can relate. Can relate. Kaely is passionate about empowering women to build health from a place of connection to self, to nature and to community. Please help me welcome Kaely to the show.

Kaely McDevitt (03:30):

Thank you so much for having me.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (03:31):

I love talking about nutrition because as a traditionally trained mainstream doctor, originally I got no education in nutrition. And even though I'm now fellowship trained in anti-aging, metabolic functional medicine, I find that nothing replaces the depth with which a nutritionist or dietician can go into each specific nutrient, can go into the foods and where you find that and really has a depth and breadth of knowledge that I probably will never have in my lifetime. So thank you for being here and sharing that with our audience.

Kaely McDevitt (04:09):

Yeah, my pleasure. <Laugh>.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (04:11):

So when it comes to a woman's health, right, so from Menarchy when she first gets her period to motherhood when she's pregnant to perimenopause, usually by 35 40, the menopause average age of 51, there are a lot of hormonal transitions that women go through. We talk a lot on the podcast about that. So I think women are pretty familiar with what's happening at these different stages as they go into hormonal poverty, as I call it. Hmm. But we don't talk a lot about how minerals are changing and how they might be the key to any transition. So I'm wondering if you can start just by sharing with everyone from your perspective, 'cause you have a unique RD perspective. Is that something that you were taught in your training about these changes through the transitions for women's health or is that something you came to a realization about on your own in practice? How did this arise for you?

Kaely McDevitt (05:14):

Yeah, it came about on my own kind of out of personal necessity. And I think, you know, your personal story to the work you do now is, is pretty similar to mine in that I finished about seven years of higher education in the health space and didn't feel like I really learned anything about women's health in in particular and how hormones work, how they operate, how they impact things like metabolism and nutrient utilization. And you know, I initially went into this field thinking I would work in sports nutrition and as luck would have it, I was dealing with a whole bunch of hormone health symptoms while I was in school getting my credentials. And so I was spending all my free time trying to learn this women's health stuff that really wasn't part of our curriculum. So you know, at the end of all the schooling, I had an RD behind my name but really felt horrible health-wise.

Kaely McDevitt (06:01):

And I was like avidly applying <laugh>, the nutrition stuff I was learning. So I would say the realization for how we need to customize nutrition for women specifically and how that might change over different seasons of life really came after and it was personal necessity. First it was like creating this life raft to get myself out of hormone chaos. And then when I got there I looked around and was like, huh, I think a lot of other women are hungry for this kind of info and they don't want this like one size fits all recommendation for things. And so once you start digging into that and working with clients to kind of across the lifespan, you start to see some pretty clear patterns of things that get depleted at different times and how we might make for smoother life transitions.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (06:42):

Yes, personal necessity is really I think the driver of everything important that we accomplished in life, right? Pain becomes our purpose. So I love that you're really focusing on nutrition around hormones and helping women with it. 'cause What you put, you are really what you put in your mouth. And I know we say that all the time, you are what you eat, but I think we don't really get it. And I, I've seen this meme on the internet where it's a person that's literally made out of food <laugh>, right? So their shoulders broccoli and their right eye is cauliflower and their left eye is pork and you know, <laugh> and so when you look in the mirror and you see your flesh and bones and skin really think about it's that it's, it's what you ate for dinner last night. It's what you ate for breakfast this morning or didn't eat I should say. So how would a woman know she is, you know, we generally talk to women who are over 40, so they're possibly in the perimenopause transition, maybe they're having PCOS, polycystic ovarian syndrome, maybe fibroids, endometriosis, some of these estrogen dominant conditions. How should she suspect that she might have a mineral imbalance? What would you say to her?

Kaely McDevitt (07:56):

Yeah, so I think minerals don't get the airtime that they deserve. I feel like we talk about vitamins a lot more and that was definitely the avenue of investigation I was interested in. First minerals kind of came around after the fact when we were trying to figure out why the heck certain clients weren't getting better as fast as others. And so minerals like kind of in as simplistic of a term as possible, they're really just enzyme co-factors in the body, meaning that they kick off reactions. And so these reactions can be things like producing energy or a TP in the cells. So our metabolism and energy production, it could be part of making healthy red blood cells so we can carry oxygen around. They are how we get nutrients and hormones into the cell. So actually the way your hormones interact with their target tissue is dependent on enough minerals being there at the cellular level, they're necessary for digestion and absorption.

Kaely McDevitt (08:46):

And so really the point that I'm making is minerals impact everything and if we are deficient or imbalanced in minerals, some of the classic symptoms would be fatigue, brain fog, kinda your list of hypothyroid, constellation symptoms that might be cold, hands and feet, brittle hair and nails or maybe some hair fall slow wound healing, a lot of digestive complaints secondary to not making enough digestive juices. So things like bloating, food, kind of sitting on comfortably constipation or just sluggish transit. And we typically see women peeing all the time when they're minerally deficient because we don't have the minerals to actually hold hydration in the cells. So you might feel like you're drinking water constantly and just peeing constantly or maybe waking in the night to pee. So those would be a couple of the first clues that we'd be looking at. Right.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (09:32):

So many of the symptoms that we experienced, but I love how you explain that really minerals are the co-factors that make everything else work. So we might be looking at your hormones, looking at your vitamins, looking at your fats, looking at your macronutrients, but we might not be looking at your minerals. I know this was really brought to my attention by an acupuncturist I worked with years ago and she had me take some liquid mins, trace minerals and all kinds of other minerals and really we started looking at it and I saw how much better everything else worked. That was my real life experience. Let's kind of talk about what are the biggest nutrients that women are deficient in that they might want to look at?

Kaely McDevitt (10:15):

Yeah, so we do a lot of mineral testing on our clients. It's actually the only test we automatically do for everybody because for all the reasons we've discussed, minerals impact everything. It's kind of like our grassroots approach for getting things to work really well. And a common pattern that we see, especially women in their forties, maybe getting into that perimenopause territory, is depletion in our foundational minerals. And so foundational minerals would be calcium, magnesium, sodium, and potassium depending on who you're learning to interpret mineral testing from. Those can be considered foundational or kind of tier one minerals because they dictate really what happens with the rest of our trace minerals. So they influence the state of the nervous system and our buffering capacity with stress, they influence thyroid uptake at the cellular level. They influence digestion in our adrenal health too. And so if we think about what is happening in life in our forties and fifties and we've had decades probably of a lot of stress, we've had decades probably of some pretty poor nutrition advice.

Kaely McDevitt (11:18):

I think most of us grew up with a lot of like be skinny at all costs, 1200 calorie diets on all the tabloids at the grocery store, checkouts maybe we've been through a couple of pregnancies, maybe we've breastfed babies and there's just so much mineral loss that happens from all of those different types of stressors that if we haven't been intentional about it, we're gonna hit that point of those things being really depleted. And that's the most common pattern we see in that season of life is just very low minerals versus them being really imbalanced, which is a different flavor of of mineral issue.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (11:51):

Okay. And I know people are gonna, I in and ask us what tests <laugh>, what tests yeah. Are available to check minerals, maybe the one you do, maybe there are others. What would, what are the TE names of the test?

Kaely McDevitt (12:01):

Yeah, so we run an HTMA, which stands for hair tissue mineral analysis. So it's actually a hair sample that's looking at mineral status because hair is telling us what's happening in the tissue level and it's giving us about a three month picture of mineral status. Whereas blood work to look at things like sodium, potassium is telling us what's in transit and it is going to be transiently impacted by things like hydration food or supplement intake. So we just get a longer term picture from a hair sample and there are many different labs in the US that run HTMA tests. We use trace elements specifically, but there are several that do it.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (12:39):

So my question would be, for instance, when we look at heavy metal levels in people, there are many different tests. You can get a blood test, you can get a urine test, you can get a stool test. So urine and stool to look at how much is is excreted blood, how much is in the blood. And you can get a hair test, which some professionals like because they say it's a three month excretion average. But the problem is that heavy metals are not floating around in your circulation. So a blood test is pretty inaccurate and because they're not floating around in your circulation, they're not being excreted through your stool or your urine readily nor are they being secreted in your hair. And so really you have to do these provocation tests where you give them medicine to bring them out. So how accurate is hair analysis when it comes to looking at kind of the steady state mineral levels that are in your systems and in your cells on a day-to-day basis?

Kaely McDevitt (13:36):

Yeah, I think it's a really great tool for assessing mineral status, but the testing procedures of the lab really matter. So this was one of the more recent tests that we decided to bring on the practice a couple of years ago because I kind of had a bad taste in my mouth about HTMA testing, validity and accuracy. I think I read some studies back when I was in school that kept this perception there. And so what was important to me is that we found a lab that used mass spectroscopy, which is the gold standard for assessing mineral analysis. It's also what the EPA uses to look at like heavy metal toxicity from a chemical spill in an area. So it's their gold standard test method for it. And then I also wanted to find a lab that did not wash the hair sample before they process it because that could influence and skew the results.

Kaely McDevitt (14:21):

So we found that in trace elements, they do a ton of, I forget the term of this for like their quality assurance, but they'll take, oh, a split sample report to make sure that their test is accurate and we're getting the same result for the same person run at the same time. And they do a lot of kinda independent measures for quality assurance, but all tests have their limits. No test is gospel is what we talk about with our clients. It's a tool, it's a guide, it's a way to learn more about you and your physiology. But with things like minerals and with metals, we often find that when we do a retest four to months later, things have shifted quite a bit because minerals are defense against heavy metal accumulation. So as we start to restore mineral status, we start to shift, we almost provoke metal movement. So we'll often see more heavy metals in the hair on a retest because we started to move their foundational mineral status. So I think it's been an extremely reliable and valuable tool in practice. But it's always important with lab testing to keep in mind that this isn't the only story. We have to use this in context with you, your symptoms, your life past data that we have. And we typically can't just run something once and call it a day.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (15:29):

Yeah, I think helping people to understand the limits, the value and the limits of lab testing and each lab test has its own value and limits. And because we are living systems in a living in environment that's constantly changing, we are constantly changing internally. Our external environment is constantly changing. It's not like setting the thermostat in your house, heat at this temperature, cool at this temperature and set it and forget it. And that's why I always say repeat testing is necessary. Looking at your story as you said, your symptomatology, what's going on, where have you been, where have you been traveling? Yeah, what's your diet been like? What's your stress level like? Just all of the different inputs. So you start at, start with testing. So calcium, magnesium, sodium, potassium, foundational or tier one minerals you might look at first and then mm-Hmm <affirmative>. What are some, I mean I know magnesium is huge for women, you know it's used in what, over 450 processes. Do you wanna talk a little bit more about these individually?

Kaely McDevitt (16:36):

Sure, yeah I think, I think magnesium gets good attention now, which is awesome because it does so much for us. I'm very rarely recommending something to like the general population at large, but magnesium is one of the few things I would feel really comfortable doing. So because most of us are deficient, whether it's from the stressors and life seasons that we discussed or the fact that it's really hard to get enough minerals from food today thanks to the fact that the soil mineral content is so depleted versus even 50 or a hundred years ago. So sodium and potassium are really good starting points, especially if you resonated with that kind of low energy, almost hypothyroid picture of symptoms because sodium and potassium are our more energizing foundational minerals. These keep things in solution. These help get hormones and other nutrients into the cell. They help us make digestive juices.

Kaely McDevitt (17:27):

So when we think about sodium, which I think if I had told my like young dietician student self that one day I'd be recommending more salt to my clients, I would've never believed it. But I, we really, really need a good quality nutrient rich salt in our diet to function optimally. And I know we're coming off of a couple decades of being really salt fearing, but there's a big difference between very refined processed table salt and unrefined mineral rich. And the difference is that it hasn't been stripped of additional trace minerals and I think it's probably not new to your audience that things exist in nature typically in the form that they belong in the body. Meaning we don't just find an isolated sodium molecule somewhere. We find sodium with the abundant trace minerals in actual salt. So actually just adding like a pinch of a good mineral rich salt to water first thing in the morning or making sure we salt our meals can make a big difference with digestion and energy levels.

Kaely McDevitt (18:25):

I know for me that was a pretty quick win that I felt personally and we see that play out with our clients. Potassium is another one again that's commonly very low and especially if you resonate with the hypothyroid stuff, potassium is actually how we get that active T three into the cells. And if we came from the low carb kind of fruit and potato fearing diet dogma, then we probably haven't been getting a lot of potassium because fruits root vegetables, those would be our biggest potassium powerhouses in our diet. So we'd be looking for ways to bring those in with each meal. You can of course use mineral and electrolyte powders to accomplish this too. But again, those like whole food forms are gonna come with a bunch of things that science hasn't even yet. Understood. Calcium is very good. Yeah. Oh go ahead. Well

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (19:10):

I wanna, before you go on to calcium, I just wanna mention with the the sodium and potassium. You know, it was interesting, I just am back from traveling kind of to 13 different or 14 different countries in the past year and a half and it's, it's amazing in some of the countries I was in in Africa, middle East, they in commercially prepared foods, they don't put any salt because they really have taken the salt as the villain dogma to the N degree. So they're like, it's a public health problem. We're not putting salt in restaurant food. A lot of places limit the amount of salt that's put in the food. And it's so interesting because yeah we need, we so need the salt. And so I had a lot of conversations with people about yes, maybe stricted salts, sodium chloride is not great but that sea salt, that pink chimay and sea salt with all the rich nutrients, right? It's got color in it which tells you and usually the colors very vary. So right there that tells you different colors, different minerals is so vital for your health and at any functional medicine conference you'll see all the doctors like fighting over the salt shake <laugh>.

Kaely McDevitt (20:24):

Yeah, it's true. So they bring those tiny ones in their purses sometimes <laugh>,

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (20:29):

Yes. Right, because we know, you know, you got to have the peak salt and lots of it. So anyway, I just wanted to to add that that's it for everyone but go ahead with calcium.

Kaely McDevitt (20:39):

Yeah, I'm glad you added that. The salt, the salt thing just needs to get out for sure. But the cool thing about minerals in particular is that you can do a lot of experimentation with this easily with things that are in your house and feel the difference in your body in a pretty short period of time. Which is why it became so fun to focus on minerals because in the world of hormone health, as you know, things typically don't resolve overnight. We usually need like 90 days of an intervention before we have huge shifts in in cycle related symptoms. But minerals you can feel that change pretty quickly. So if you're listening and you're curious, I would just dabble a little bit in what we're talking about and note how that feels. So we hit sodium and potassium calcium. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> I think gets a decent amount of airtime just primarily about like bone health, especially for women.

Kaely McDevitt (21:27):

But it does a couple other cool things for us too. So it is very calming to the nervous system. So when we lack calcium we tend to hang out in that sympathetic fight or flight state more often and struggle to get out of it. So that might feel like poor sleep racing thoughts or minds just feeling really amped up and kind of anxious and that state further depletes minerals. So calcium is one of the ways we break that cycle and actually create some flexibility in the nervous system to go back to that parasympathetic or rest and digest state. So much like sodium, I love calcium from food forms the best more than a calcium supplement. 'cause Again we've got co-factors that we don't even yet fully understand and probably never will in science that really help with the way that we move and use calcium in the body.

Kaely McDevitt (22:13):

That it goes where it belongs in the bones and teeth and stays out of things like circulation and soft tissue. And then magnesium is the other piece of that kind of soothing mineral puzzle. So we've got sodium and potassium being more energizing calcium and magnesium being more soothing and calming to the nervous system like you already mentioned. I mean magnesium's involved in literally hundreds of reactions in the body. We actually can't even recognize an A TP molecule without magnesium attached to it. So the energy conundrum is a big magnesium situation. Most cycle related symptoms improve with some supportive magnesium. So I'd be thinking about potentially a magnesium supplement because as much as I love food as our first line of defense, it's really difficult to get a therapeutic dose of magnesium through the diet. We could do Epsom salt baths if you don't have time for a full bath, you can do an Epsom salt foot soak, which is like a nice hack I like to do in a busy workday and still absorb that transdermally. There are a lot of topical magnesium sprays and lotions that you can leverage too. I think this is the mineral that when we're on vacation, especially if you're in the ocean and you just like feel so good and you sleep like a baby, it's probably 'cause of that

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (23:21):

<Laugh>, yes sunshine, sand, you know, the ionized air and the salt in the water, it's the best. So you know, this is where I think people get a little intimidated by minerals because one, there are so many two, there's so many forms of each different type three, how do there now people are wondering, well how do I get this Kaely, how much do I need and how much, how do I get it into my body? Right? A lot of us want the convenience of prepared foods we don't wanna cook. I was amazed particularly in Dubai and the UAE and in England, how the proportion of prepared foods in the grocery store compared to America where it's more you have to put it together and cook. I was astounded in London, it was, I'd say three quarters of supermarket was all already prepared foods and similar in Dubai. So there's the idea of convenience. So I know that's a lot of topics I'm throwing at you, but there are several different types. Let's take magnesium for instance. So you said mentioned take a supplement, magnesium citrate, magnesium chiate, magnesium malate, magnesium three innate, you know, how do people even begin to know what to do

Kaely McDevitt (24:40):

Here? I know, I really empathize with this. There's just, there are too many options for things <laugh> these days, which is a blessing and a curse and we get kind of stuck in the middle In my experience best tolerance and absorption and price has come from magnesium glycinate really well absorbed, generally well tolerated, does not have the bowel loosening impact that like a magnesium oxide or citrate would have because it is better absorbed. Three and eight is another good form as well that I think is generally well tolerated. It tends to be a little bit more expensive than glycinate and I'm a big fan of like the lowest effective dose of things. I don't need to get the creme de la creme if the second step down does the same work for me. So I think that's a pretty good one to start with to trial that I find most people tolerate well if you are totally brand new to minerals, you've never taken a magnesium supplement before, then I would actually even start more simply than that and do like an Epsom salt bath or foot soak or a topical spray or lotion because we're getting to bypass the digestive tract when we do a skin transdermal delivery of magnesium so we can avoid any potential bowel disturbances.

Kaely McDevitt (25:47):

It tends to be a little bit more gentle than a supplemental form. And I would also say too that everything works best in tandem. So I wouldn't get hyper-focused on just magnesium. I would also be bringing in, you know, a little good pinch of salt in your day and your water on your food. And then just keeping in mind those potassium rich foods. And this is the main reason why we like to start with those foundational minerals, those first four before we get any further on in somebody's report because it does get so overwhelming so quickly. And if we can hone in on those first four, everything else tends to fall into place. It becomes much easier to address some of those secondary and tertiary minerals. But we always start with those first four for about a month first get some, you know, good momentum going, some quick wins in terms of symptom changes and then we can get more complex from there.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (26:35):

Yeah, thank you for sharing that. And as you were speaking when I was traveling one store I went to for Epsom salts also had pink Himalayan salt in a big bag for a bath soak and they had did sea salt and so I got one bag of each including the Epsom salts and I really tried to notice what was the difference I felt after taking a bath with each of these and by far I felt the best with the pink Himalayan salt and I think it's because of all these, the panel of contents of minerals, the panel of of minerals that were in there. Totally. And then where would you go next from the foundational minerals?

Kaely McDevitt (27:14):

Yeah, so I would spend about a month kind of playing around with that, bringing some of those foods into your diet, noticing how you feel. And then when we look at HTMA testing some of the next kind of orders of operation I guess if we're using a math term for what we would address next. We love to look at what's happening with copper and its relationship with iron and zinc, particularly for women. So copper is a really big deal for the way that we handle and move iron around the body. That's a goldilock situation as most things are. We want enough but not too much. We want enough so we can make really healthy red blood cells that carry oxygen well. And copper's also big for our connective tissue so our collagen cross linking and so healthy skin, hair and nails And then if you've been pregnant or had babies, we pass a lot of copper on to babies during the third trimester.

Kaely McDevitt (28:04):

It's big for developing new vasculature and healthy connective tissue for baby as well. So we do see abnormalities in copper quite a bit in women to add a layer of complication to that. Things like birth control, particularly copper IUDs can start to skew that copper balance with zinc and iron. So we would look at that next mm-Hmm <affirmative> and that varies so much from person to person. I'm not seeing like a flat, everybody in this season of life is deficient or everybody in this season of life has excessive amounts. But we would be looking at that and workshopping that accordingly. Meaning we'd look at the diet to make sure that there were good copper and zinc rich food sources. We'd make sure that we had enough co-factors to help the way that we balance and move things like copper and iron. So things like vitamin C and vitamin A come into play with that conversation and then just making sure that they can move and access iron well and that it's not being stored in tissues. Those would be our next three that we'd look at.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (28:59):

Right. And I do just wanna reiterate the copper and iron are both kind of these Goldilocks minerals. You do not want too much. So if you're kind of, oh, if it's good for me more is better. Do not do that with your iron and your copper <laugh> because you can totally overload yourself. And then these are heavy metal, they become heavy metal toxic in your body and I've seen that with both of these minerals. So don't do that. So test, I'm always like test don't guess. Yes, test don't guess. Yeah. Amen. And so amen. It's true here, right?

Kaely McDevitt (29:35):

Amen. Yeah, especially with those. Yeah. Which is why I don't like to give out any recommendations related to copper and iron for someone to try. 'cause I just don't know enough about you or what your testing results look like or history to make a safe recommendation there. But that would be the next area of investigation for sure.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (29:50):

Right. And what you will see is that a lot of the over counter, you can buy copper and iron separately, but a lot of the multi women's vitamins that are over the counter will not include iron and copper specifically because of the potential to over overlap load for nutritional supplements tend to be a very litigious area so they just steer clear of it. But this is where some of the higher level prescriber prescribed are available nutraceuticals that you can only get through a healthcare practitioner have versions. Usually for women they'll have a multivitamin mineral with copper and without copper with iron, without iron because they're assuming that you're getting tested in, you're being appropriately followed and counseled. That's how delicate it is with these. And what are your thoughts about, you mentioned earlier you prefer people to get these minerals from their diet, from food dietary sources rather than supplements. Can you explain why that is and how successful people should expect to be with manipulation of their diet? To increase their mineral status? Yeah. Versus taking supplements. Mm-Hmm.

Kaely McDevitt (31:03):

<Affirmative>. Yeah, it's tough like we talked about with the way that the soil and therefore our food supply is different in terms of nutritional value today it takes a very concerted effort to do this through the diet and I've yet to be able to be completely void of, of supplementation to really accomplish this. But I do think it's important that we start with food because food is brilliantly designed by nature to have minerals and vitamins in ratios that really support utilization and absorption. So for example, with our kind of like copper conversation, the relationship between copper and zinc is a really important one in the body. And foods that have copper always come with a little bit of zinc and vice versa. So we've got good checks and balances in place with food where we're not likely to overdo something. And we have a whole bunch of non-identified by science factors in whole foods that I think really benefit the whole human being.

Kaely McDevitt (31:56):

A lot of our antioxidants and polyphenols and things that are not nutritive but do influence the health of the of the host. So I think looking at, again, bringing in some good fresh fruits and vegetables as mineral rich powerhouses, good broths, whether it's a bone broth or a vegetable broth is a great mineral rich food to bring in those good quality unrefined salts are great to bring in quality dairy if you to tolerate that for some of the calcium, those things would be great foundational elements to build that diet. And then we can supplement beyond there if there are gaps to fill based on your testing, your stressors, your story. But I think we're remiss if we wanna take, you know, three handfuls of capsules every morning and then not have to care about the food that we eat. It just doesn't play out the same <laugh>.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (32:44):

Yeah. And you know there's something that food has that by the time they crunch down these nutrients into a vitamin capsule for you that's the prana or the chi, the life force in the plant. And like you mentioned earlier, everything exists in nature in a form with a life force that's meant to nourish us. So what are we doing if we're only taking supplements and we're only, we're not eating food. So just to learn story. So someone who I respect very much in the business world who I was working with and he had a bit of a weight problem and I hadn't seen him for a while and then all of a sudden I saw him and he's telling me that he's gone to this diet that he, and he's looking great, right? Really tram lowered his body fat, muscular. So I asked him, what are you doing? He said, oh I changed my diet. So he's using making protein powder pancakes in the morning and having like, you know, artificial sweetener syrup for breakfast and he's basically not eating real food all day long but he's cutting his calories and he's like, I feel great. And inside I'm like, that's not gonna last for an hour. <Laugh>. No this is not getting that. So talk, talk about those intangibles and food and real food that are so important.

Kaely McDevitt (34:02):

Yeah, I think there's so much more to nourishment than just like the actual food and the composition of it. Like carbs, proteins and fats. We get real focused on the composition of food in the weight loss space and miss the nourishment that comes from eating something that you enjoy that you took time to prepare, that you put love and intention into as you prepared it. Or maybe put love and intention or gratitude into it right before you consumed it. Maybe this is a family recipe, this is something that's culturally relevant to you. There's so much more nourishment we get from that than something that's been packaged, processed, manipulated, and is so far removed from that initial version of the food. A good example of that would be like a whole apple being as close to it as it exists in nature as possible versus apple sauce, apple flavored candy, you know, at the far end where we've gotten really far removed.

Kaely McDevitt (34:55):

So we just get more nutrition on the closer to the natural form as possible. And when we contrast that with really processed foods, which they normally have to go back in and add some nutrients to make it comparable, the form is different. So we have synthetic lab produced vitamins and minerals in fortified foods and a lot of supplements. There are some great supplements out there that are not synthetic forms, which would be a helpful thing to look at. But what exists in nature is the form that your body is most easily recognizing, most easily absorbing and using. So there's a big difference between like the vitamin C that you get from eating a whole orange or grapefruit than the like refined ascorbic acid you might get in a vitamin C drop very different functions and they come with, you know, that full spectrum of polyphenols and antioxidants in the food form versus that kind of refined extracted supplement.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (35:45):

Right. Thank you so much for, for sharing that. So copper, iron, zinc, co-factors, vitamin C, vitamin A, what would we work on next?

Kaely McDevitt (35:56):

Yeah, so there's a mineral that's kind of further down our chart called boron that does not ever really get talked about. It's not like this fun sexy nutrient that you're gonna see a lot of posts about, but boron <laugh> really helps with the way that we retain potassium and magnesium. So potassium and magnesium are supposed to mostly be inside the cell and they dip outside of the cell during seasons of stress. So that's one of the first cellular changes when we see stress hormones enter the system is magnesium and potassium leave the cell. That's why we can sometimes see them actually shoot up on a hair test if we catch this acute stress picture. But anywho, boron helps with the retention of potassium and magnesium, which is a big way to bolster our tolerance or resilience to stress. We talk a lot about stress and burnout with our clients and I know that in and of itself can become overwhelming because we can't like quit our jobs, leave our families and typically can't just take a sabbatical tomorrow if we need it.

Kaely McDevitt (36:56):

And so the goal is not this stress-free life where we have just a whole day of meditation and yoga unless of course that's an option for you, which is amazing. But our goal is to build that resilience and retaining our potassium and magnesium is a big part of that and boron is a piece of that puzzle. It does have some function with the iron copper balance too and even the way that we make sure that calcium stays in the bones and teeth. So it is a kinda an unsung hero in the mineral world that we definitely look at with our clients on testing and can provide support if needed. A couple easy ways to provide some boron support if you wanna go food, we're actually looking at prunes and prune juice being a good boron source. Yay. Which is funny. <Laugh> easy, right? If we wanna supplement form that can come from you know, drops or capsules.

Kaely McDevitt (37:42):

It's usually just like a plain boron supplement or like you mentioned a trace minerals dropper. A lot of the trace mineral formulations that are out there have boron in the mix because it is the full constellation of macro minerals and trace minerals. So there's easy ways to do that. Then a lot of the like mineral baths, so we talked about Epsom salts, we talked about Himalayan pink salt being in the bath. You can even put like food grade borax that we would use as like a cleaning aid into a bath and actually get boron from that absorbed through the skin. So there's a couple of different options for some boron support

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (38:17):

Now I have never heard that. What food grade Bax. MM-Hmm <affirmative> and put it in your bath. Where do you even get that

Kaely McDevitt (38:25):

On Amazon? So it's usually a cleaning supply, right? It's what people add to their laundry to <laugh> boost the effectiveness of their detergent. But you can absorb that in a bath. And so we've experimented with this a lot because we do so much HTMA testing with our clients and we've had some clients that really struggle to move the needle with the potassium and magnesium stuff. We'll do retest and it's just not budging. And so we started bringing in where we sprinkle in a little bit of borax in a foot bath or as part of like their bigger mineral detox full bath and they sleep amazing that night and then their mineral retest actually look better. So it has stuck with me it as like a very low cost mineral added <laugh>.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (39:03):

I'm gonna have to try that and I will get back to you on what <laugh> please do. <Laugh>. I never heard of that. That's amazing. Yeah, there are many, many minerals we can't possibly go through all of them during this this show and teach you about all of them. You all obviously hear that Kaelyn knows what she's talking about. I love that you test and don't guess I, I'm such an advocate for that with everything. But I do wanna touch on, you talked a little bit about burnout and it's the beginning of the year. A lot of people are like, oh my gosh, January of a new year I didn't do all the things I wanted to do last year and now I have new things I wanna do and how am I possibly gonna get them done? Especially because my hormones are out of whack.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (39:47):

I don't feel good, I don't have good energy. You shared this quote with me before we started recording from some bylaw of Elizabeth Gilbert that is you have to participate relentlessly in the manifestation of your own blessings. Which that's, I I love so many quotes of her. She just has a beautiful facility with crafting <laugh> sentences and paragraphs and storytelling stories and I think that this speaks to kind of the the burnout issue. So can you talk a little bit about, I know it's a lot I'm asking you to do, but this quote and how it relates to burnout and where we are kind of at a new year, 2024 and there's a lot going on on this planet, right? There's, I think I heard in one news story and you may not hear about this every day, there are a hundred wars going on on our planet right now and we're in this kind of insanity where we're overwrought with technology and now here comes AI and you guys listen and you know, you know the stressors that you've got. I'm not gonna stress you out by listing them <laugh>, but where does a woman even begin and how does she begin to deal with her transitions and prevent or reverse her burnout and manifest her own blessings? Yeah,

Kaely McDevitt (41:07):

I'm glad you brought this up because I think this is like, this is the root I think of most hormone health issues is this like chronic state of stress and then on the other end of that being burnout. And it's tough because we're living in a time where we have access to limitless information and exposure to everything that's happening around the world. And we also have like pretty extreme pressures on our personal and professional lives and maybe there's families in the mix with that too. There's just a lot on the plate and I think we also tend to get almost addicted to the way stress hormones feel in the system. It starts to become a bit of our personality and I'm like fully calling myself out a few years ago with this, but we love the feeling of being that like yes person, we just say yes, we take it all on.

Kaely McDevitt (41:53):

We are the one that shows up for everybody we do the most and our own cup is left on the back burner and it's very, very empty. So a way that we like to talk about this with our clients and I think what ties us back to that quote is you have to decide for yourself what that vision of your life looks like. And in order to let go of the stress and burnout picture, there's often a like renewing your identity or letting go of things that don't fit anymore. So what I mean by that is if we want to not live in this burnout state, we have to figure out who we are. If we're not the person that says yes to everybody and no to ourselves, who are we in that room? If we're not the people pleaser that derives our worth from what we do for others only And that's a pretty uncomfortable piece of work.

Kaely McDevitt (42:37):

But I think it's the only way out of this because like she said in that quote, you know you have to relentlessly participate in creating that vision for your manifestation. So what do you want life to look like? How do you wanna feel in your body? How do you wanna show up in the room? And I don't think we have enough examples of women that are really grounded in who they are that aren't burning the candles at both ends that know their worth comes from who they are, not just what they do. And I think if more of us awake to that vision and really resonate with that being the image, we can start to rearrange our life and our priorities and even our personality to support it so that we don't burn through our minerals like a mad woman every single day and have to play catch up so that our sex hormones can actually thrive because we're not in an environment of stress hormones all the time. And so that when we do go through perimenopause and into menopause, it's not such a rocky road because our adrenals aren't just burnt out and in the gutter already. So I think I maybe created more questions than answering any, but I think it's just this big conversation of who am I if I'm not burnt out? Who like who is that person? But

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (43:39):

It's such an important conversation to have because so many women are suffering with hormone problems, they're also suffering with micronutrient deficiencies, whether it's mineral, vitamin, other nutrients and they're running around looking for answers. I just need my estrogen fixed, I just need my magnesium fixed. But like you said at the beginning, this gets to the root. The root is that we're running around trying to live and create our worth by everyone else's expectations being the best. And you know the epidemic of <laugh> busyness, particularly in some of the countries that I visited, it's in the nth degree, it's really at an insane level. And what was so beautiful is is visiting some of the less developed countries where it's more of a simple existence. Connection is way bigger. You would see people walking to work together in groups of women or groups of men and talking, you know, in groups and you know, everybody wasn't on their phone.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (44:43):

Oh my gosh, in every country I've been to that's considered a progressive country. Nobody's looking at each other, nobody's talking. Everyone's got their face in their phone and they're doing, doing, doing. And so I think having these larger questions, which we're gonna be having more of on the podcast this year, I would love to have you on 'cause it sounds like you've grappled with some of this really talking about like this quote you shared from Fitch, not Han, which I love The miracle is to walk on the green earth telling deeply in the present moment, right? Are we doing that <laugh>? And that really gets to, to the crux of the issue. So before we wrap up, do you wanna talk a little bit about how you're, you've changed your life and your way of being in the world to dwell deeply in the present moment?

Kaely McDevitt (45:33):

Sure. And I wanna be clear that this is an ongoing and ever evolving practice. <Laugh>. I don't think you <laugh>, I don't think you just like arrive there and that's, that's the end of the work. But as a business owner and working in like the health field that I know you can relate to, it's really easy to feel like your worth comes from what you give to everyone around you. And that the more you do, the better things get in your life. And I was basically just burning myself out trying to do work that I ultimately love. So I had to reevaluate that because when I do my own tests I was getting called out left and right about things being out of whack because I wasn't living in an alignment with what it takes to have balanced hormones and balanced minerals. So I had to really consider the pace and how I structured my days and create opportunities to really focus on being present and being outside and off of screens and just being instead of focusing on the doing so much.

Kaely McDevitt (46:27):

So having a morning where I don't check my emails or social media for like the first hour of the day. Totally life changing for me because I get to pour into myself before I let my energy go out into the world getting outside. We have chickens, which was a really fun thing for me 'cause I have to go out there in the morning and do stuff with them. So get to be out there. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> seeing the sun and trying to do that in the middle of the workday made a big difference. And I think at the end of the day, one of the like thought processes that changed it so much for me was remembering like you're the main character of your life. Like you gotta make decisions as the main character, not the support role. We're always doing things for other people and for whatever reason I wanted to share that 'cause it really made things click with me where I was not choosing things as like main character of my life. I was letting circumstances kind of steamroll me, but you steer this ship, you create this vision, this manifestation that you're working towards. So what do you want it to look like and how can you own the responsibility for when it doesn't look that way? So mostly just called myself out a lot and <laugh> and continually work on that each day. <Laugh>.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (47:33):

Yeah, I think it is a work in progress for everyone, but I find that as women share more about this and talk about strategies they find things they've done, how they do it and make it work for them, it gives permission for others to do, do things that are off the beaten path and and create their own map to their own sanity. The manifestation of their own blessings, their own ideal health. And so thank you much so much for sharing the path that you're forging and how you're helping other women. I think it's been a great value. And please share with everyone where they can connect with you online.

Kaely McDevitt (48:12):

Sure, yeah, you can find me mostly on Instagram. I don't have the bandwidth for multiple social media platforms, so I'm on social media and it's just at Kaely Rd on Instagram. My website is the same. So you'll find more education like the stuff we discussed and then ways that we can help if, if you need help on that

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (48:30):

Journey. Thank you so much Kaely. Thanks for being here. Thank you for listening to another episode of The Hormone Prescription. I hope you are inspired to work on manifesting your own blessing, starting with your minerals 'cause that will help your hormones. Reach out to me on social media and let me know what you're doing and how it's working out. I'm gonna try that thing we talked about <laugh>, I'll let you know on social media how that works out and I hope to see you again next week for another episode. Until then, peace, love, and hormones y'all.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (49:00):

Thank you so much for listening. I know that incredible vitality occurs for women over 40 when we learn to speak hormone and balance these vital regulators to create the health and the life that we deserve. If you're enjoying this podcast, I'd love it if you'd give me a review and subscribe. It really does help this podcast out so much. You can visit the hormone prescription.com where we have some free gifts for you and you can sign up to have a hormone evaluation with me on the podcast to gain clarity into your personal situation. Until next time, remember, take small steps each day to balance your hormones and watch the wonderful changes in your health that begin to unfold for you. Talk to you soon.

 

►Get Kaely McDevitt's free masterclass recording on "Busting Burnout" - helping women leverage nutrition & lifestyle to bounce back from burnout. CLICK HERE.

 

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Dr. Cathleen Brown | Hormone Poverty And Your Brain, Vagina, Libido - How To Fix It Now

Welcome to another empowering episode of The Hormone Prescription Podcast, designed specifically with you, the midlife woman, in mind. 🎙️

This week, we're tackling a topic that resonates deeply with so many of us – "Hormone Poverty And Your Brain, Vagina, Libido - How To Fix It Now". And we couldn't ask for a better guide on this journey than our esteemed guest, Dr. Cathleen Brown. 👩‍⚕️

Meet Our Guest

Dr. Cathleen Brown is not only a board-certified obstetrician and gynecologist with an exemplary background rooted in the Philadelphia suburbs, but she's also a decorated former Army physician with a heart for mentorship and a passion for holistic women’s health. 🏥🇺🇸

Her career, spanning over two decades, paints a picture of dedication - from guiding future medical practitioners to addressing the intimate concerns of women transitioning through menopause. ✨

In This Episode

• Discover: What "Hormone Poverty" means for your brain health, vaginal vitality, and libido. 🧠💕
• Learn: The profound impact hormones have on our bodies and the nuanced interplay between them and our well-being.
• Explore: Dr. Brown's insightful advice on hormone replacement therapy and how it can revitalise your life during and after the menopausal transition.
• Hear: Candid, real-life stories from Dr. Brown's extensive experience that illuminate the path to a healthier, more vibrant you.
• Get Inspired: To take control of your health and explore the options available to combat the symptoms of hormone imbalance. 💪

Dr. Brown also shares her personal interests in traveling, gardening, and the joys of motherhood, connecting with us on more than just a professional level. 🌿✈️

Actionable Takeaways

• Empower yourself with knowledge about your body's hormonal dynamics.
• Don't hesitate to seek help; quality hormone replacement therapy might just be the key you need.
• Remember that your concerns are valid, and your health matters - always.

Keep shining, lifelong learners, and remember - your body's changes are not just a medical matter; they're a pivotal part of your story. Join us as we learn from Dr. Brown how to rewrite the narrative on hormone health and reclaim our vibrancy.

Until next time, keep nurturing your body, cultivating your mind, and inspiring your spirit! 🌟

If you found value in today's conversation, please consider leaving us a review or rating on your preferred podcast platform. Every bit of support helps us reach and empower more women just like you.

Stay connected with us on social media and join the movement of women who choose to live their best lives – hormonally balanced and brimming with energy. 🌷

 

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (00:00):

The founder of my alma mater, Thomas Jefferson Medical College, said that knowledge is power. We're gonna empower you with some foundational knowledge about bioidentical hormone therapy and why it's absolutely necessary and how to do it right in this episode with two board certified OBGYNs. Stay tuned.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (00:23):

So the big question is, how do women over 40 like us keep weight off, have great energy, balance our hormones and our moods, feel sexy and confident, and master midlife? If you're like most of us, you are not getting the answers you need and remain confused and pretty hopeless to ever feel like yourself Again. As an O-B-G-Y-N, I had to discover for myself the truth about what creates a rock solid metabolism, lasting weight loss, and supercharged energy after 40, in order to lose a hundred pounds and fix my fatigue. Now I'm on a mission. This podcast is designed to share the natural tools you need for impactful results and to give you clarity on the answers to your midlife metabolism challenges. Join me for tangible, natural strategies to crush the hormone imbalances you are facing and help you get unstuck from the sidelines of life. My name is Dr. Kieran Dunston. Welcome to the Hormone Prescription Podcast.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (01:17):

Hi everybody. Welcome back to another episode of The Hormone Prescription. Thank you so much for joining me today as we dive into one of my favorite topics, natural hormone therapy, hormonal poverty, hormonal prosperity, midlife, metabolic mayhem. You know, all the things I love talking about. The things that I presented in my TED Talk. If you haven't checked that out, it's on my YouTube channel. You'll wanna see that. Super important because hormonal poverty that's programmed for us women as we go to 35 and 40 and beyond, can cause myriad symptoms. I like to call midlife metabolic mayhem contributes to disease, including dementia and heart disease, the number one killer of women over 50 and others, and it shortens your lifespan. So you might wanna listen up today. My guest is also a board certified O-B-G-Y-N. Who gets it when it comes to natural hormone therapy and the necessity for it.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (02:14):

Now, if you know me well enough, you know, I'm fellowship trained in anti-aging, metabolic and functional medicine as well. I had my own healing journey that included the two prescriptions you need for hormonal prosperity. One written for maybe sex hormones, estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, and the other is not a written prescription, but a lifestyle prescription. So I've really gone into even additional training further than Dr. Ka, but she gets it when it comes to bioidenticals. We do differ when it comes to what you should do for an evaluation before they're prescribed, what should be prescribed, et cetera, et cetera. So I think you'll find this interesting because she and I are on different pages when it comes to certain aspects of bioidentical hormones. But as you know, I'm not the kind of doctor who says, do this because I say it's right. I like you to educate yourself.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (03:09):

We present the education and then you make your own decision. So is testing necessary? Hmm. You'll have to listen. Is testosterone necessary? Hmm. You'll have to listen and so much more. So I think you'll enjoy it. And I'll tell you a little about Dr. Kat. She lived near where I went to college. I went to Bryn Mawr College. She lives in the Philly suburbs where Bryn MA is. And I went to Jefferson in Philly. She went to one of the other medical schools in Philly. I think there are five or six. It might be the highest concentration of medical schools, actually, in any city in the country. So it's a very medical education focused in Philadelphia. Anyway, Dr. Kathleen Brown, she's board certified. I'm gonna try and make this a little shorter 'cause it's really long. But she's Philadelphia trained at Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine. She was in the military, actually, where my cousin was in, in medical administration at Tripler in Hawaii, which is a very beautiful place. She's worked in North Carolina doing general OB GYN and she is an OB hospitalist now also in Philadelphia. And she works with a company called One Nona prescribing Bioidentical Hormones virtually. So you'll get to hear about that as well. So please help me welcome Dr. Kat Brown to the show.

Dr. Cat Brown (04:40):

Well, thank you so much Dr. Kyrin Dunston. It's very nice to be here. Thanks for having me.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (04:44):

Yeah, I'm always excited to talk to another ob, GYN who gets it when it comes to what I call hormonal poverty of menopause, but also perimenopause that women are programmed to go into. And you totally get it. So you guys are gonna get a treat today 'cause you're gonna get two ob gyn board certified OBGYNs who get it and really understand and speak hormone, who are just kind of talking about what's important that you need to know now. So this is really a privy conversation I think you're gonna enjoy. So I always think it's fascinating for everyone to share with my guest to share, you know, you were trained like I was a traditional straight shooter, O-B-G-Y-N, pharmaceutical prescriptions and surgeries to quote unquote fix everything. And here we are in our careers later down the line, and we both realized that maybe we didn't get the whole truth in what we were thinking. So what was that path like for you?

Dr. Cat Brown (05:48):

Isn't that the truth? I mean, it's, I remember in residency being told like, oh, just memorize these hormones and just, you know, give everyone Premarin if they need to. And you're probably not gonna need this because you're not gonna prescribe hormones. I, I remember attending telling me that, you know, because of the WHI study that, you know, this was something we learned for the test, but you were never actually gonna use in real, real time practice. And for me, that changed when patients started coming to me with issues. But also when I started going through my own journey into this part of midlife too, and realizing that really the things that we were taught and the things that we were doing in practice were just not good enough. You know, it just seemed like not enough emphasis and time was put into women's health and midlife.

Dr. Cat Brown (06:36):

And then I felt, of course, you know, like many people do, like you feel gypped, right? You feel like the information is inadequate. And I also felt like, just like the same as, you know, our nutrition information and, and education that we got as physicians. And I think maybe I got an hour in medical school talking about nutrition and I, thinking back, you know, to medical school and residency, how much time was actually spent on perimenopause and menopause. It was grossly inadequate, you know? So I feel like at this point in my career, I've had to do a lot of introspection, but also a lot of research on my own and a lot of education on my own in order to help myself as well as help my patients.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (07:15):

It's so true. I mean, you know, I have that same cut and dry education training and, and I practiced that for many years because I hadn't experienced those changes yet, which is wholly inadequate to really address the symptomatology that women have as they go into hormonal poverty. And then when I started going through it, I was like, holy, what is happening? <Laugh>?

Dr. Cat Brown (07:39):

Yes.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (07:40):

And then realized that the solutions that we had as sports certified OB GYNs didn't really work. And so here I was at 243 pounds where I had no energy and slept all the time, and my hair was falling out. I had no sex drive. My gut was a wreck. I, you know, my digestion, I mean, I was, I was just a mess. I had chronic pain, fibromyalgia, and then I kind of saw the light and <laugh> and then figured it out. And so now, you know, I made a promise that I would spend the rest of my life teaching other women about this. So if you're listening, you're getting the insider's view of where OBGYNs go when they learn the truth. Because if you're going to your regular ob gyn right about now, you're not getting the whole story. You're not getting the whole truth, you're not getting everything that's available to you. And I'm not saying it's their fault, it's just how they were trained and they don't know any better, just like it used to be true for Dr. Kat and for me. But you wanna go to someone who's been through hell and back and, you know, has seen the light.

Dr. Cat Brown (08:45):

Isn't that the truth? Seen the light, for sure. <Laugh>,

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (08:49):

What do you think is super important? I'm a huge proponent. One of my complaints about traditional OB GYN is that their standard of care for testing everything in mainstream medicine. Test your blood pressure test, your weight test, potassium test, your total cholesterol test, you know, your rectal blood for, you know, for blood. All these things we test. And then when it comes to women's hormones, we go board certified OBGYNs, throw their hands up and go, there's no standard of care for testing. We don't test. They're all over the place. We don't know. I mean, just anyone listening to that can go, that's kind of insane. What do you make of all that? You know,

Dr. Cat Brown (09:29):

It's one of those things that I feel like not enough attention has been placed on it, but I think just even, even talking to a patient, just even simply getting a good quality interview of a patient and talking about their symptom profile, like, we can tell right away when someone tells me that, you know, they're not getting as lubricated as they used to, or their joints are hurting, or, you know, they're experiencing vaginal dryness, their skin is different. Like, in my mind right away, I can start to think about, okay, what's happening in their hormonal environment, in their body? You know? And I think that frankly, like a lot of the time you go to a traditional OB, GYN, you go to those visits, there's just not enough time for them to even have the conversation. Half the time you don't even really get to, to talk to your doc.

Dr. Cat Brown (10:11):

You might give your history and your symptoms to their ma or to their nurse, but they come in and it's like they focus on the exam and that quick in it, that quick interaction and then you're done. So I think that it's just a matter of time and having a real quality conversation. You know, I don't think that, you know, right now, like we, I can't rely on a lot of the lab tests that patients bring to me because I have no idea what the lab's doing and, and when they're drawing the labs and that kind of thing. And so there's just so much variability. There's not enough consistency for me to really look at the lab values and really value them. So for me, in my practice, I end up using the patient's history and their symptom profile and their symptom log gives me so much more information than I could, could otherwise.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (10:55):

Yeah, I mean, certainly I hope you would agree blood work is not accurate for steroid hormones that are not water soluble. So I typically rely on the Dutch test, the dried urine hormone, which is really accurate. I know there's some others that have used it, but I just think it's kind of crazy. I would never have a patient come in and, you know, talk to them and get their symptoms and then go, you know what? It sounds like your low potassium, I'm gonna give you some potassium because you have symptoms of low potassium without checking their potassium. So I just, when I learned about accurate sex hormone testing for estradiol s trial, estro progesterone testosterone, and learned how to read it on myself, because of course I had done blood tests that all came back, quote unquote normal 'cause the range is ginormous on blood. And then I did it, and it actually gave me in four colors where I was and Oh, this is why you have the symptoms.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (11:54):

And then over the years, as I've seen thousands of these tests, really seeing how each woman has a unique picture, right? It's not one size fits all. People have their unique flavor of what they're high on and how high, what they're low on, and how low what their estrogen phase one and two detox looks like. So I just find testing invaluable for women instead of just, like I say in medicine, there's, there's nothing that we don't test. That was a big wake up call for me. And now I see the real injustice. I don't know if you've looked into the history of gynecology, the profession of gynecology, like under the American Board of Specialties, how it started? Yeah. And kind of how it's evolved. I mean, what were your thoughts on that? I was pretty horrified when I learned some of the details about how that specialty evolved.

Dr. Cat Brown (12:46):

It was just the sense of embarrassment and like the feeling of just feeling appalled as how especially gynecologic surgery evolved and learning how so much of our field has so many roots in systemic racism is just crazy, you know? And some of the information about Marian Sims and coming out about some of the things that he did and how he experimented on his slaves to, in order to get the information, you know, for surgical advancement especially, you know, that's something that came to light, I think more in the last few years, especially since Black Lives Matter, you know, and ACOG has done some memorial lectures in in response to that. But that was probably one of the biggest things that I was just thrown back by because I don't remember hearing anything about that at all throughout my training, you know? And so to learn that, and, you know, even to move forward and, and, and hear about, you know, the Henrietta Lacks situation too, and how, how she was experimented on, but not really fully treated. And, and we still use ourselves to this day, you know, to study chemotherapies for ovarian cancer. It's insane. That was one of the biggest eye-opening moments for me as a gynecologist. I, I would say.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (14:02):

Yeah, I agree. So, you know, for everyone listening, if you haven't heard about this, basically the profession has been developed with a kind of unethical medical and surgical use of people of color and women without consent to do research on. And some of it is very unethical, not the way we do research now, which, you know, people could argue maybe there's some problems with the ethical nature now, but it's way better than it used to be. And it really was started as a surgical specialty more than anything. And so then you have people who are surgeons who they weren't really ever intending to address women's hormones that that wasn't the intention. So you have to look at the lens at which people are viewing a problem that they're dealing with. So here you have men, you have white men who are looking at women's health through a surgical lens and really what their intention is and how they view women in general.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (15:09):

And so it's just really clouded. And, you know, maybe I'll have to have someone come on the podcast who's a historian, sociologist, who can really break it down for everyone. But I too was embarrassed when I learned all the details. I really got a good understanding of why we're stuck with our present mainstream gynecology system of care that we have and why we know everybody's so myopic and won't move out of it and won't really see the problem because they can't. So make that discussion a larger discussion to have another time. But thank you for sharing your thoughts on that. In terms of the importance of natural hormone therapy and, and the difference between what you would get at your doctor's office, traditional mainstream doctor's office, or what you might get from a physician like us who is trained in bioidenticals, what would you say is the importance? 'cause I get a lot of questions from women. What are bioidentical hormones? Can my regular doctor prescribe that? Why not? What's the difference? So what would you explain to them?

Dr. Cat Brown (16:13):

Yeah, I mean, I think that my biggest, easiest way to discuss this, with regard to this, is really to talk about Premarin, right? Which is probably the most common hormone replacement that can be prescribed by most physicians, whether it be the topical vaginal Premarin, or whether it be the oral pills. I like to tell patients the story of Premarin, and I like to tell them what the origin of the name of it is, you know? 'cause When you break it down, I mean, Premarin really means pregnant mare's urine. And so, you know, fundamentally just the main difference from the traditional pharmaceuticals, especially given for hormone therapy compared to bioidentical, is that most traditional pharmaceuticals are not hormones that exist naturally in our bodies. Especially when you think about Premarin being the pregnant mare's urine. It's coming from the urine of pregnant horses.

Dr. Cat Brown (17:04):

And, and these have, you know, when you look at the label, I remember as a medical student even looking at it saying conjugated equine estrogens, why equine? You know? And when you finally learn like this is the, a jumbling of horse hormones that's put together, and it's almost like we're collecting as many estrogens, estrogens as we can, putting them into a pill and throwing them at a patient hoping that one will take, you know, but there's so many other compounds in those medications that aren't even biologically active and human beings that, you know, just really can't. So it can't be optimal for a patient, right? Because we're giving them horse hormones when really they need human hormones that are similar to what their body is making. And so that difference, you know, when we talk about bioidentical, it's, it's really hormones that are the same as what your body would normally make on its own, but it's incapable of continuing to create on its own and the levels that we need it, you know? And so patients are always shocked and they say, well, how could they do that? How could they be giving me horse estrogen? But we've been doing it for years, you know?

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (18:06):

Right. But the body thing that a lot of people are amazed to learn is that why, why is the next question? Oh. Because they can't get a patent on a naturally occurring substance. Yeah. So they could have created exactly what you had in your body, which would've been best for you. Right. So if you're low on potassium, what do we do? We create potassium. Exactly. It's what you have. And then give that to you. So it would be best for you. Anyone can understand that. But no, we can't get a patent on it, meaning we can't make money on it even though it's best for women. Right. So that's why we're gonna go get it from horses. So it's a whole capitalist capitalistic view. Yeah. Capitalism drives so much of our health problems and we don't even realize it <laugh>. Well,

Dr. Cat Brown (18:53):

And that's such a bigger conversation. I mean, we could get into that whole conversation about how, you know, so much of wellness and health is driven by big pharma and because they can't make money on naturally occurring things or even supplements, you know, that there's just no money or research put into that. And so they create these synthetic compounds to make new medications. And it's, it's all this big money making scheme. And pharma just keeps getting richer and richer. Whereas, you know, the medications aren't as readily available to patients. It's sad, but true <laugh>. But it extends into the women's health arena too, when it comes to not only hormones, but even birth controls. You know, that big pharma kind of rules everything. And as soon as it's something is old enough that it gets to generic and it gets more affordable for a patient, they just tweak some little thing about the medication, the color of the pill, or how many days it can last or what the package looks like, just so they can get another patent to be able to continue charging ungodly amounts for brand new medication. It's crazy, right?

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (19:57):

So Yes, it is. And so you talked a little bit about Premarin. So yes, mainstream pharmaceuticals, Premarin Provera, which wasn't progesterone, it was hydroxyprogesterone acetate. So how are these hormones, why are they important for our brain health? I think that's something that not many people don't hear enough about. Yeah.

Dr. Cat Brown (20:17):

I think the best way to describe it to patients is that estrogen has such a beneficial effect on every tissue of our body. You know, as, as female human beings, estrogen is pervasive in every tissue and even at the cellular level. And so with, without it, the junctions, especially in our brain, like our, our neurons, our neurotransmitters, things just can't function as well as they can unless there's estrogen in that environment to help those tissues act their best and, and help those connections. So I think, you know, the same is, goes through, you know, joint discomfort. And, you know, even with the cardioprotective aspect of estrogen, there's so many good things that it does through every tissue in our body that when you start removing estrogen, those areas just can't function as well as they want to. That's how I kind of describe it to patients to kind of get it to a simpler level.

Dr. Cat Brown (21:11):

But, you know, we, we see the research coming out that, you know, for patients that don't use hormone therapy, their cognitive decline is so much more rapid. Those changes are so much more noticeable in patients that aren't on hormone replacement. You know? And I think it's something that we're gonna see more and more of, especially as we in general, as patients and as consumers, are more demanding of treatment. I think we're gonna start to see a change in that, in, in that climate, you know, as far as watching patients, you know, combat that cognitive decline. And, and you know, especially when it comes to dementia, the onset of that, I think that that's important.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (21:48):

The other thing that I found crazy, did you find this crazy too? When I learned about proper bioidentical hormone treatment used to be, and I think it's still this way, that mainstream doctors are taught that women who don't have a uterus don't need progesterone. Because the only reason you need progesterone is to prevent the uterus from creating cancer in response to estrogen. When I discovered, when I did my fellowship in anti-aging, metabolic and functional medicine, you know, I learned, well, oh, you know what, what about the breast counteracting the effects of estrogen in the breast? And then also the neuroprotective effects of progesterone where it's actually used in traumatic brain injury patients and stroke patients to help preserve brain tissue. And all the tissues, all the cells have response to progesterone. So can you talk a little bit about that? 'cause I know there are women listening who are saying, well, I'm only on estrogen, I don't have progesterone, and they're not really aware that they need that to balance it out. Mm-Hmm.

Dr. Cat Brown (22:48):

<Affirmative>. But I think it's a, you know, it's something unique to each patient. You know, I have that conversation with my patients, you know, and, and typically I have patients that, you know, that come to me with a history of a hysterectomy, maybe on estrogen only. And we have that conversation. I mean, I think that, I don't necessarily prescribe, personally, I don't necessarily prescribe progesterone for every single patient that has had a hysterectomy. It's a, it's, you know, I make it a shared decision making process with my patients. And we talk about the risks and the benefits, and it's one of those things that I have some patients that really do want it. And so we add progesterone, but it's not something that I've made universal for each patient, you know? And I think that, so a lot of my patients want as minimal amount of medications as possible. And so it's mm-Hmm, <affirmative> it's one of those things that we have the conversation about. But I absolutely have patients that feel like they function better with both hormones, with the estrogen and the progesterone. And so we do that when they want that and they need that.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (23:46):

Yeah. I mean, I guess that's different when you're just treating based on symptoms. Like, oh, you have this symptom, I think you need that, and you have this symptom, I think, versus a test, you know, I guess it's a different viewpoint where you see the hormones as these are necessary components for optimal functioning. 'cause You have progesterone receptors in all your cells and tissues, including your brain. So I guess it's a different way of looking at it. How about the importance of testosterone? Yeah. I

Dr. Cat Brown (24:14):

Mean

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (24:14):

About that.

Dr. Cat Brown (24:15):

Sure. I don't think a lot of women realize that we also have testosterone in our system. You know, a lot of women just focus on their female hormones, but they don't realize that, you know, testosterone really drives our metabolism. It sometimes drives our energy level, helps to combat fatigue, but it really is one of the biggest drivers of our libido and sex drive too. And for us, especially trying to combat osteopenia, osteoporosis, as we age and trying to maintain our bone health and our, our strength and our muscle health, we don't, we don't realize how much testosterone is integral for that as well. And really muscle maintenance, maintaining our strength, I think it's important. And so that's something that, I think is, is something really important for patients to take into account too. And, you know, testosterone, it's, it's one of those things that we have some limitations because testosterone in, in the medical community, and especially in the bodybuilding community, especially for men, it's been so abused and misused.

Dr. Cat Brown (25:15):

And I come from a military background, you know, I was an army doctor for much of my career for 12 years. And we had a huge issue with male soldiers coming in because their wives couldn't get pregnant. And they had been taking so much high dose testosterone just for performance enhancing to make them faster, to make them better soldiers, make them run better, and be able to lift more. But then as a pro, as a result, their body wasn't creating its own endogenous testosterone. And so, you know, now as a result of all those abuses, testosterone is considered a controlled substance because with high doses, it can cause more harm than good. So for women, you know, we have to be cognizant of that. But I think that we don't realize that, you know, many pro providers out there don't realize, physicians don't realize that you can safely replenish a woman's testosterone.

Dr. Cat Brown (26:05):

You have to be very careful because our therapeutic range for testosterone is a little bit more narrow than it is for a man. We don't wanna, you know, it's, it's like walking a fine line. We wanna replace testosterone, but we don't want to masculinize our female patients either. We don't wanna cause those masculinizing side effects that women can get if they get too much of it. You know, like the male pattern baldness or facial hair growth. You know, most often I see patients come, you know, with changes in their skin and, and more acne develop, you know, as a result of testosterone. So we have to be astute to really fine tuning, like what we're giving patients when it comes to testosterone supplementation,

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (26:43):

Our narrower range for women. And that's why I think testing is so vital. And again, you know, here it's where politics and money, politics and money really rule women's health when it comes to our healthcare. We saw that in terms of Premarin, but also with testosterone, where it's considered a controlled substance because of the abuse by male bodybuilders. To my knowledge. I don't know that female bodybuilders have abused it, but that's possible. But testosterone is just as essential for women as men, right? For our muscle mass, our bone density, osteoporosis, and fractures due to osteoporosis, one of the biggest causes of death and disability of women over 50. It's important for our neurochemistry, our dopamine, our get up and go drive neurotransmitter for our mental clarity, functioning feelings of wellbeing. A lot of people think, assume it's only about libido, doctors and patients alike. And it's about so much more than that. So much

Dr. Cat Brown (27:45):

More.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (27:45):

Yeah. So I think it's essential. And then, you know, it's also not only a controlled substance, but because of a 17-year-old boy, Ryan Haight, who was able to obtain a controlled substance from another state through telemedicine, it's also very difficult to obtain it through telemedicine. So because of teenage boys and bodybuilders, women's access to this important hormone is limited, and most doctors won't even prescribe it for women. They, I've found a lot of patients come to me and they say that, oh, my doctor told me that I don't need it, and they won't prescribe it. And let's talk a little bit about libido before we wrap up, because that's something, you know, I'm recently back from traveling the globe where one of the things I was really looking at is what is women's healthcare like in other countries and other continents, particularly around menopause.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (28:43):

And everywhere I went, women over 40 were grabbing me when they heard what I did and sidelining me to tell me they had the same problems as women in the us. And I was really startled to learn that it's global, but I guess I shouldn't be, because as America goes, so goes everywhere else. But women really, this lack of sex drive is a problem globally. Women don't have one. I mean, it's a problem for men too, but a lot of women don't have a libido. They think that that's normal for their age, that they shouldn't have a libido. They don't talk to their doctors about it because they're ashamed and stigmatized. So can you talk a little bit about that?

Dr. Cat Brown (29:27):

I think that not enough emphasis has been placed on it, but I also think like, it's so much a, it's a bigger, like, more deeply rooted issue, I think in our, our culture as a society, not just in, in healthcare. But I feel like, you know, there's this double standard, right? You know, that I think it kind of stems back to like that purity culture too. Like, like, you know, women aren't supposed to be sexual beings. Like we're, you know, there's this kind of underlying theme that like everyone wants us to be good and to be well behaved. And so, you know, there's not enough emphasis placed on it. And then meanwhile, you see so much in the media and on the news about women or men's health, you know, and, and we've spent so much time and energy researching erectile dysfunction, <laugh>, and helping men with their situation.

Dr. Cat Brown (30:12):

But then we're not helping their partners, especially if they're in a heterosexual relationship. You know, we're, we're helping men get a hard on, but we're not helping their wives be able to be receptive or even interested in having sex at all. It really is back to like women just being treated kind of like second class citizens and not enough emphasis placed on us. I think it's that very misogynistic view of the world, and it kind of is pervasive in healthcare too. I think that not enough importance has been placed on women's health and, and that this is so, so evident when it comes to libido and, and women's sexual health. And I don't even think I knew until getting into taking care of women and perimenopause, menopause and menopause, that there even was like a society for sexual wellness. Like, I just, I just found out about ishish, you know, probably in the last five years, you know, which does extra training for physicians and providers. And as far as their sexual wellness, you know, that wasn't even something that was even discussed when I was being trained to become an ob GYN. And what a shame, because, you know, we're supposed to be the experts when it comes to female genitalia, female organs, reproductive health. But then that part of reproductive health, which is, which is so important and it's such a important part of life and a part of our health, it's not even really discussed, you know, you know, it's

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (31:37):

So true. And as, as you're talking, I'm thinking if I had to do it over, I literally would specialize in female sexuality because I think it is the most underserved area of obstetrics and gynecology. And so I was thinking, why don't we have fellowships in female sexuality that would be something, you know, just for women to understand. And I think it does come from the religious perspective that most people have of puritanical views, but I think we're growing out of it. You know, I've been watching this show on Netflix called Dating on the Spectrum, which I love. It's so heartwarming,

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (32:17):

So beautiful. Yeah. And what I love especially is seeing how the younger generation, most of these people are in their twenties, a few are in their thirties, they're open about sexuality and talking about sexuality. And I think that along with that open discussion comes an understanding, hopefully it does for them. I mean, they don't talk about it in this show about the importance of healthy sex for your overall health, vitality, wellbeing, and longevity. Yes, yes. And I think it's really time, you know, it's not too late for women over 40. It's not too late for women over 50, 60, 70. I don't care if you're in age. I think

Dr. Cat Brown (32:57):

It's never, it's never too late

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (33:00):

<Laugh>. It's never too late to have some good sex and get the health benefits. What are some of the health benefits of having regular good sex where you have orgasms? What are some of the health benefits for those who might not be aware?

Dr. Cat Brown (33:16):

Well, I think that overall, I mean, what I see is like, you know, a woman's immune system is much stronger when she has regular sex that it's pleasureful. I mean, not only that, but just opening up those pleasure centers in the brain as well. You know, it's fundamental, and when a woman allows themself to really enjoy sex and really puts importance on, on physical pleasure in that way, it gives them so many health benefits and just invigorates their life and invigorates their health too. I mean, women that tend to do that more, are more in touch with their bodies and tend to take better care of themselves than women who don't just, you know, comparing apples to oranges. But I think that not only that, but you know, the old, old saying that like, if you don't use it, you'll lose it, <laugh>. So the more we bring arousal to our female genitalia, the more healthy that tissue becomes, you know, whether it's through masturbation or whether it's through sex with someone else. The more that you use those tissues, the more healthy those tissues become, the more blood flow that they get, the more hormone rich the environment that those tissues get, the more they're, they're used in that way.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (34:29):

Right. And then it improves your cortisol stress hormone profile. Yes. You know, I call queen cortisol and your overall health is really governed by cortisol. Yes. You know, it was interesting. A, a woman I did a consultation with last week, she had had the BRCA gene, and this is anonymous that I'm talking about this, I won't mention her name. She had had double mastectomy, bilateral ovary removal with a hysterectomy, all kinds of consequences from that. And her main concern was, I have no sex drive. Can you give me a magic pill to fix that? What would you say to a woman who's kind of in that predicament? 'cause I know she's not alone.

Dr. Cat Brown (35:10):

Yeah. I think that one of the biggest things is setting expectations. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, you know, and, and there is no one magic pill. I think that fundamentally, as women, our sexuality is so much bigger than that. It's not just a matter of turning a hormone on or off. Our largest sex organ. And the most important sex organ that we have is our brain <laugh>. And so much of our sexuality is emotional and mental, because unlike men, we're wired differently. We have to be in the right mindset. We have to have the self-confidence, self-motivation to even be, allow ourselves to feel romantic or sexual and something that they have to work on and have to really put the effort into cultivating that. It's, it's not just a, a matter of having a magic pill, but sometimes I think as for us as physicians, just opening up that conversation with a patient can be empowering for them just to be able to start having the conversation and just using the language and talking about it gets their mind starting to think about, well, like what can I do to start reframing?

Dr. Cat Brown (36:18):

I think that sometimes having those surgeries, you know, having, going through hysterectomy, going through a mastectomy, dealing with either cancer risk or cancer surgery, then puts a woman in a completely different mindset. And they have a hard time thinking about themselves as sexual beings anymore. You know, and a lot of women, there's a, you know, the self-stigma that they place on themselves that, you know, having certain female organs removed changes who they are as women. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But it really doesn't. And so we have to help them empower themselves to kind of change that view as well. But, but you have to put the work in, it has to come from multiple angles. I think, you know, we can help with the hormone aspect of it, but then they also have to do the work of that mental mind shift about it too.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (37:04):

Yes. So true. And, you know, you had given me some great quotes to share before we started. I wanna wrap up and add this one. 'cause It's, I think it's attributed to several PE people, but one of them happens to be Thomas Jefferson, where I went to school at Thomas Jefferson University in Philadelphia. Knowledge is power. So hopefully you've learned something today, listening that you can use to empower yourself when it comes to hormonal poverty, getting out of it and getting to hormonal prosperity, to experience the vitality that you deserve. Dr. Kat, thank you so much for joining me. Where can people connect with you online and find out more about what you do?

Dr. Cat Brown (37:46):

Sure. I have an Instagram account at Dr. Cat obgyn and I do hormonal therapy for patients through Wyn oda, which is by wino.com. I'm also on LinkedIn, although I haven't done much with that profile lately, but <laugh>, I have to do a little bit more. But that's primarily where you can find me.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (38:03):

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining me today and for your path in women's health that hopefully is empowering lots of women. Thank you so much.

Dr. Cat Brown (38:14):

Well, thank you so much for having me. It was a great conversation.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (38:16):

And thank you for joining me for another episode of The Hormone Prescription. Hopefully you've gotten some different perspectives when it comes to natural or biologically identical hormones. Today. We've talked about testing. There are different opinions as you can see between me and Dr. Kat on whether testing is necessary and accessibility to testosterone and how important that is, and more so. I really think it's important that you take this as a note to educate yourself and make informed decisions that are right for your health. Like the founding father of my alma mater, Thomas Jefferson says, knowledge is power. Hopefully you've gotten some knowledge today that can empower you to make the right choices for yourself so you can move out of midlife metabolic mayhem, prevent disease, increase your lifespan, and get to hormonal prosperity and live the vitality that you deserve. I look forward to hearing about the changes you're making. Reach out to me on social media, so on social media. On social media, and let me know until next week, peace, love, and hormones, y'all.

Dr. Kyrin Dunston (39:25):

Thank you so much for listening. I know that incredible vitality occurs for women over 40 when we learn to speak hormones and balance these vital regulators to create the health and the life that we deserve. If you're enjoying this podcast, I'd love it if you'd give me a review and subscribe. It really does help this podcast out so much. You can visit the hormone prescription.com where we have some free gifts for you, and you can sign up to have a hormone evaluation with me on the podcast to gain clarity into your personal situation. Until next time, remember, take small steps each day to balance your hormones and watch the wonderful changes in your health that begin to unfold for you. Talk to you soon.

 

► Get Dr. Cat Brown's Guide to HRT. It’s a crucial resource for those wanting to understand Hormone Replacement Therapy - CLICK HERE.

 

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Dr. David Clarke | Why Deep Stress & Your Brain May Be The Cause of Your Disease or Chronic Pain

Welcome to another empowering episode of The Hormone Prescription Podcast, the go-to audio haven for midlife women seeking wellness and balance in a demanding world. Today's episode is a deep-dive into an often-overlooked culprit behind disease and chronic pain - our complex brains under the burden of deep stress.

 

In This Episode: Join us as we explore with Dr. David Clarke, the profound ways in which deep-seated psychological stress can manifest as physical symptoms. Dr. Clarke, an accomplished physician certified in Internal Medicine and Gastroenterology, shines a light on the intricate link between deep stress, our brain's response, and how this connection may be keeping you from enjoying a life free of pain.

 

For years, Dr. Clarke has dedicated his expertise to advancing awareness, diagnosis, and treatment of stress-related and brain-generated medical conditions, striving to quell the chronic pain epidemic. As President of the Psychophysiologic Disorders Association (PPDA), he is at the forefront of transforming lives through education and support.

 

Key Takeaways:

• Uncover why your unexplained aches might be rooted in emotional trauma or long-buried stress.
• Learn about the crucial role of psychophysiologic disorders in chronic pain syndromes.
• Discover practical tips on identifying stress-induced pain and how to address it effectively.
• Gain insights into Dr. Clarke's holistic approach that goes beyond medications to heal the mind-body connection.

 

Professional Insight:

Armed with an MD from the University of Connecticut School of Medicine and a wealth of clinical experience, Dr. Clarke's professional insights are a beacon of hope for those battling unseen stress-induced health struggles.

A Message to Our Listeners:

Dear listener, if you've been searching for answers to the mystery of your unresolved pain, this episode could be the key. Dr. Clarke's expertise offers not just knowledge, but also the compassion and understanding so vital during the healing process.

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Dr. Kyrin (00:00):

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Arthur Schopenhauer, stay tuned to find out about something that is self-evident to some of us practitioners, but your doctor might not be aware that could be hurting your health and your hormones.

Dr. Kyrin (00:24):

So the big question is, how do women over 40 like us, keep weight off, have great energy, balance our hormones and our moods, feel sexy and confident, and master midlife? If you're like most of us, you are not getting the answers you need and remain confused and pretty hopeless to ever feel like yourself again. As an O-B-G-Y-N, I had to discover for myself the truth about what creates a rock solid metabolism, lasting weight loss, and supercharged energy after 40, in order to lose a hundred pounds and fix my fatigue. Now I'm on a mission. This podcast is designed to share the natural tools you need for impactful results and to give you clarity on the answers to your midlife metabolism challenges. Join me for tangible, natural strategies to crush the hormone imbalances you are facing and help you get unstuck from the sidelines of life. My name is Dr. Kyrin Dunston. Welcome to the Hormone Prescription Podcast.

Dr. Kyrin (01:17):

Hi everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Hormone Prescription with Dr. Kyrin. Thank you so much for joining me today as we dive in with Dr. David Clark into a discussion about deep stress and your brain causing chronic disease, chronic pain, hurting your hormones and lots more. This really is self-evident to a lot of physicians like me and Dr. Clark, but most physicians haven't gotten the memo when they went through med school and training. They didn't get the memo on this. They weren't trained in this. So they're probably not aware if you're going to a typical managed care physician. They also don't necessarily have the time to spend with you to discern if these issues could be contributing to your health problem. So I think this is a super important topic. I'm glad you're here to hear it. Dr. Clark has deep knowledge and experience in treating patients, in research, in teaching medical students and residents about these issues, and it really can benefit your health and your hormones.

Dr. Kyrin (02:29):

So I'll tell you a little bit about him and then we'll get started. So he's a board certified internal medicine specialist and gastroenterologist, and he is the founder of the Psychophysiologic Disorders Association, PPDA. He's got some resources to share with you. His website is end chronic pain org. And he's very modest because in his bio that he shared with me before we started, and then I did my research online, I found all the books that he has authored and co-authored and all the resources that he has for you. So he's the author or co-author of Psychophysiologic Disorders. He is an author of a diagnostic guide for Psychophysiologic disorders, that's for practitioners. He is the author of, they Can't Find Anything Wrong, Seven Keys to Understanding Treating and Healing Stress Illness. But none of this was in his bio <laugh>. So he's, he's very modest, but like I said, he has deep knowledge and the time has really come that all doctors should know about the effect of ACEs and deep stress on their patient's health, but they just don't. So it's your turn. You've gotta take responsibility for your health to educate yourself about this and to put it into practice, to use your, in your health to move it towards the best it can be because you only get one life and you deserve to have the best health and best life and best vitality possible. So that's Dr. David Clark. Please help me welcome him to the show.

Dr. David (04:15):

Great to be with you. Thank you.

Dr. Kyrin (04:16):

Yes. I know we're talking about your favorite topic today and hopefully we'll tie it into my favorite topic, which is hormones. And hormones and pain, chronic pain are interrelated. If you're listening and you're not sure why you're scratching your head saying, Dr. Karen, I don't understand that. Hopefully it'll make more sense for you at the end of the episode. But first I wanna dive in . You are certified in internal medicine and gastroenterology, but you have this passion for psychophysiologic disorders. If you're not sure what that is and you're listening, just stay tuned. We'll, we'll, we'll define that for you. And most doctors certified in internal medicine, practicing everyday internal medicine and gastroenterology really don't have an interest in this, they may not have knowledge or awareness of what you specialize in. I know that you do educate practitioners, which is wonderful because we need to have more awareness. How did you become aware that this was a huge blind spot for US physicians when it comes to treating patients and become so passionate about it?

Dr. David (05:28):

Well, like you, I was very traditionally trained. I mean, I went through four years of medical school and three years of internal medicine residency entirely. Traditionally, things were going well for me in terms of my training, but all of a sudden I encountered a patient. I didn't know the first thing about how to diagnose or treat this was in the eighth year, you know, when I was a first year as a gastroenterology fellow. And this patient had been ill for two years, with very severe physical symptoms, actually referred to UCLA where I was in training from another university because they couldn't figure out what was wrong with her. We did a very specialized test on the electromechanical properties of the intestine to try to figure out what her problem was. And we were my department chair and I, we were convinced that that test was gonna be abnormal because no other explanation was possible as far as we were concerned.

Dr. David (06:21):

And so when that test was normal, two we're just at a loss and we had to essentially tell the patient there was nothing more we could do for her. But in her exit interview, I asked her about stress a few more times, and she began telling me she'd been sexually abused as a girl and not just once or twice, but hundreds of times. And this obviously was a huge piece of history from her background that I didn't think could possibly be connected to why she was physically ill 25 years later. But it definitely stood out and I was aware that there was a psychiatrist in our institution who had an interest in these mind to body connections. And I thought, well, maybe we can help this patient live with her condition a little more successfully if she talks to this psychiatrist. So I arranged an appointment, forgot all about her, and then I ran into the psychiatrist in an elevator a few months later and said, you know, whatever happened to that patient that I referred to you?

Dr. David (07:19):

And she said, oh, I haven't seen her in a few weeks now, Dave she's fine. She's, you know, no longer needs any medical care. All of her symptoms have completely resolved. And this happened just with a few months of counseling. And at that point, that just blew my mind that you could alleviate a serious physical condition just by talking to somebody. So I thought, okay, you know, if I'm gonna be a complete doctor, I should learn a little bit about how to do this. It might come in handy for a few patients every year when I get into practice. So I prevailed on Dr. Kaplan to give me a framework for how she thought about these things. And then when I did get into practice, I started using this framework whenever I couldn't find a disease or an injury that would explain the patient's symptoms and patient after patient had these deep psychosocial stresses that were going on that were connected to their illness, if you could identify them, if you could treat them, the patient's physical symptoms would improve. And unfortunately, in Portland, Oregon where I was in practice, there were no other Dr. Kaplan's there. So I ended up doing a lot of this work myself, and today we're 7,000 plus patients later than I've been doing this with. And I've been teaching other doctors how to do this because you can, it's readily possible to learn how to do this, and it just transforms your practice. This was one third of my patients for decades.

Dr. Kyrin (08:47):

Right. Well, thank you for sharing that. I, I think it's always fascinating how, why people do what they do, why they're so passionate about it, particularly when it comes to physicians who have gone off the beaten path, the mainstream of medicine where most gastro neurologists are just typically prescribing drugs and surgery, and nobody's asking about people's adverse childhood experiences, deep stress, et cetera. So hopefully that gives everybody an idea of the question of why this is important. Maybe there's somebody listening who's been struggling with undiagnosed medical illness. What are some of the statistics on undiagnosed medical illness and why is this such a huge problem?

Dr. David (09:31):

Yeah, we're talking here about people who go to the doctor for their pain or illness and no disease or injury is found to explain it. Or if the doctor thinks, well, maybe this issue could be explaining your illness, but you're not improving in the way the doctor expects, and that's the time we want to bring in a look at psychosocial stresses, either from the past or the present or both that could be contributing. And it turns out that when you look at the research, it's about 40% of people that go to a primary care physician or about 20% of the adult population in general. So this is 80% larger than the diabetic population, for example. And yet, unfortunately, it's not been part of traditional training. It's kind of like the medical clinicians are saying, well, this is a a psychological problem. This is really not in our ballpark. And the mental health professionals are saying, well, these patients have physical symptoms, they've got real pain, they've got irritable bowel or fibromyalgia or migraines or pelvic pain or genital pain or joint or back pain. And that's not really a mental health problem. So we don't deal with this either. And these patients fall into a giant blind spot in this system. It's 50 million people in the United States alone.

Dr. Kyrin (10:50):

So how would somebody who's listening know if they have a chronic illness that remains undiagnosed or chronic pain? You talk about stress related brain generated symptoms versus traditional pain and disease. How does someone even begin to sort out, is this me? Could this be affecting me?

Dr. David (11:10):

Yeah, it certainly starts with having a medical evaluation to make sure there's no organ disease or injury that's responsible. And then after that, we're looking into whether there could be a psychosocial stress behind this. And there are three main categories for that. There could be stress in your life at the moment, especially if it's chronologically linked to when and where your symptoms began or when and where your symptoms flare up. The second major issue is to make sure you don't have a mental health condition that hasn't been diagnosed. A lot of people with depression, anxiety, or post-trauma stress don't fully recognize that their symptoms are linked to that depression. Those mental health conditions can be subtle in many people and not so obvious as to have you running straight to a mental health professional. And then finally, the biggest shock of my medical education was finding out that stress when you were a child, could make you ill as an adult.

Dr. David (12:09):

The question that I like to ask my patients here is, imagine you were a butterfly on the wall of your childhood home and you were observing a child you care about growing up in the same home that you grew up in and you can't do anything. You're just watching that kid try to cope. Would it make you sad or angry to watch that child either your own or another one you have a connection to make you sad or angry to watch that kid trying to cope in that environment. And if it would, then there's a probability that there's a level of stress that went on back then it can still be impacting you today, including in the form of physical symptoms.

Dr. Kyrin (12:47):

So I wanna ask you a couple of questions about what you just shared. So you said they need to make sure they don't have any type of organ disease or a mental health diagnosis, but in reality you can have organ disease functional like a Crohn's or ulcerative colitis with an actual organ problem, and you still could be related to stress and brain issues. Correct?

Dr. David (13:12):

Well, you can have a combination of impact on your body from stress, from brain generated symptoms and a biomedical condition like Crohn's disease at the same time. And that's, that can be a really confusing situation for a physician. If you've got a flare up of symptoms, you need to then sort out, is it the inflammatory bowel disease is flaring up or is it the irritable bowel syndrome that's more directly connected to stress that's flaring up. And sometimes you have to do more diagnostic tests to see if the inflammation is more active, or you can evaluate the patient and see if there's a stress that has come up in their life that has triggered the flare up in the symptoms. So yeah, there can be people who have both of these conditions at the same time. Right.

Dr. Kyrin (14:01):

And same, I guess with the mental health diagnosis. And you talk about adverse childhood experiences, which we've talked a bit about on the podcast, but I think it bears repeating. And you mentioned a term though I had not heard called deep stress. So can you talk about what is deep stress and maybe talk to everyone about how they would know if they qualified to have adverse childhood experiences or not? I know you gave a great example there. If you look back at your childhood, would you think, wow, that was really a lot to handle, but what is deep stress?

Dr. David (14:36):

I use the term deep stress to mean stresses that people don't fully recognize they have. So they're kind of deeply buried stresses that may be affecting a person today, but they're not fully recognizing the magnitude of that stress. One of my patients, for example, was put into my hospital because of an attack of severe vomiting and extreme dizziness. And when I went to see her for consultation, she said something to me, I've never heard from any other patient, which was, thank you for coming, doctor, but don't waste your time with me. You'd be better off seeing your other patients. And when I asked her why it turned out she had good reason to say that she had been hospitalized at a major university in her hometown 60 times over the previous 15 years with no diagnosis. She had seen a dozen different specialists, she had seen a psychiatrist and none of them could find anything wrong with her.

Dr. David (15:31):

But it turned out that she had a major stress in her life, which turned out to be that her mother had verbally and emotionally abused her, starting when she was three or four years old and continuing on to the present day. She was 50 years old at the time, her mother was in her seventies and was still doing this to her. So it also turned out that, and this was the, the real key to her diagnosis. But although most of her attacks of illness, which she had between six and 10 times a year, took place in and around her home community, she would always get an attack whenever she passed through a little town, about 45 minutes from where she lived. But it turned out the only time she ever went through that little town was when she was on her way to visit her mother, who lived several hours further down the road.

Dr. David (16:21):

So she's driving to visit her mom, the emotional tension in that relationship is building and building and building. And by the time she gets to this little town, her husband's gotta pull a car over and she's throwing up all over the guardrail. So I pointed out to her that the only time she got sick was when she was on her way to visit her mother. She could drive 45 minutes in any other direction and she'd be fine. She could drive an hour and 45 minutes in any other direction and she wouldn't have any problem. So that finally made clear to her what this deep stress was that she hadn't previously recognized. And as soon in her case, just bringing that into conscious awareness was enough to alleviate her illness. She went home from the hospital the next day and she called me a year later, say, she'd gone through the entire year with no episodes. Now I wish I could cure everybody that quickly, but it's a really good example of deep stress and the impact it can have when you finally see what's going on.

Dr. Kyrin (17:22):

Right. And so what you're describing though, in terms of the physician interaction really requires a level of attention and curiosity and a level of time commitment to really sort through these issues with people that most physicians are not allotted by the current managed care system that we have. And we're not trained in that. So I know that you have so many resources, books you've authored and training programs for practitioners. I don't know that the medical curriculum has changed since I went through medical school. Are you, or residency, but how do you suspect that we're going to actually get physicians, the education and training and give them the time to be able to sort through these issues with patients?

Dr. David (18:13):

Yeah, once you see these issues, you sort of can't unsee them. And it's true that the, you know, medical office visits these days are very short. But as I tell my audiences of physicians when I'm teaching, you don't have to gather all this information in one visit. You can get the information you need about stresses passed and present a little at a time, because these are patients that tend to keep coming back to your office because they don't get better with the traditional approaches. So you gather this information over time, and the physicians I've taught to do this they absolutely love it. It transforms their practice. So one of them mm-hmm, <affirmative>, a family doctor, took me aside at a conference and said, these concepts have put the joy back into my work because all of a sudden you've got 40% of the people who are coming through the door to see you.

Dr. David (19:04):

That used to be a headbanging frustrating because you didn't know what to do for them. Now all of a sudden you have a positive approach that you can take that actually makes people better. Not necessarily in one hour conversation like with the last patient, but definitely over time people can see they're on a pathway toward improving their use of healthcare resources goes way down. You know, you asked about, you know, what patients can do to assess themselves. I should have mentioned we've got a self-assessment quiz on my nonprofits website. It's at end chronic pain.org. There's a 12 item self-assessment quiz. And it's set up so that the more questions to which you answer yes, the more likely it is that you have one of these psychophysiologic disorders. A combination of psychology and physiology. And that's a way that your listeners can find out or at least get more information about whether this might apply to them.

Dr. Kyrin (20:01):

Yes. Something else you said though, that this woman had been emotionally abused by her mother in my experience. So this applies to a great quote that you shared with me from Schauer before we started that I wanna share with everyone. All truth passes through three stages. First it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. And I love that because I, I don't know which stage we're in with the topics that you're talking about where deep stress, adverse childhood experience, and we're probably in the, maybe it's a little ridiculed by a lot of people. That's not an issue. And in my experience, and in a lot of the women that I work with, thousands of women, if you say, were you emotionally abused? Were you sexually abused? Did you have abuse? Did you have neglect as a child?

Dr. Kyrin (20:51):

I find that a majority of people who grew up in fairly cohesive, what I would call seemingly functional families, have no awareness actually, that they were emotionally abused, but they were, and maybe they have no memory of sexual abuse, but they were. And so I do find when I encounter patients, 'cause this is something I'm attuned to, and there are certain issues going on that have no medical explanation, and I approached these subjects, their answer is, oh no, I, my family was fine. I didn't have any problems. But if you ask more pointed questions to get to specific statements that people may have made or how people were available to them or not emotionally really in the terms of the emotional arena, people have a huge amount of denial is what I'm gonna say.

Dr. David (21:42):

You're right.

Dr. Kyrin (21:44):

So how do you, we've been socialized in America and most developed countries to believe that our body is a machine and it's a mechanical machine. When there's a problem, well, we go to the doctor to get a diagnosis, just like we take our car to the mechanic and then they figure out what's wrong and they give us a pill or they do a surgery and they fix us. And nowhere in my training or any, I just did my board recertification this year, we have to do it every year. And none of the articles on women's health had anything to do with what you and I are talking about when you and I both know that the issues we're talking about have deep consequences in terms of health for women in terms of their fertility and their menstrual regularity, their menopause, et cetera. So how do you get people out of denial and to really realize that this is a part of the problem and realize that what they did experience, although it might not have been horrific, like you see in some TV shows and movies, actually was neglectful and was an adverse childhood experience. And was Dr. Deep stress

Dr. David (22:49):

Wow, a lot to unpack there. Yes, with the Schopenhauer quote, I mean, it depends on, you know, who you talk to. But the acceptance now is really coming on. I mean, there, I'm teaching in my medical school, I'm teaching in graduate schools, and there are medical schools in Europe that are teaching this now. One of two of them are actually using my first book called They can't find anything wrong as a teaching tool, especially for their family doctors. So the acceptance is really growing. It, it's, we need more for acceptance than just me telling stories about my patients. And we have that. Now in 2024, there are half a dozen randomized controlled trials that show the value of what I call pain relief psychology or what another researcher is called, pain recovery psychology, that have compared it with a variety of placebo control groups and the, the power of the outcomes, the effect size, which is the, the statistical term is enormous for when you compare it in terms of the outcomes.

Dr. David (23:55):

One of the studies called the Boulder Back Pain Study, for example, they had people with 10 years of back pain. Their average pain scores were four out of 10. And with just one month of pain relief psychology, their average pain scores dropped from four to one. And this is after a decade, these people had been suffering. And, one month it just plummets. It's extraordinary to see the graph. It was published in the JAMA Psychiatry Journal of the American Medical Association. And the benefits were enormous. And we got similar results at Harvard, at the West Los Angeles VA Hospital where they worked with a very tough group of older male veterans, 5% of whom got better with cognitive behavioral therapy, which is the usual kind of psychotherapy that you get in the us. But with the new pain relief psychology, 42% achieved their pain goal.

Dr. David (24:51):

I mean, it was eight times as much. It's just extraordinary to see that kind of impact just from talking to people in a different way. So coming onto your question about how do we make people aware that their childhood experience was maybe not quite so good as they thought, because you know, after all, none of us has a parallel life we can compare ourselves with. If you grow up in a difficult environment, you may not necessarily appreciate how difficult it was. So this brings me back to that same idea of, you know, imagine a child that you care about growing up in the same household you did, dealing with everything you had to deal with, and you are just watching it as a passive observer. How are you feeling when you're watching that kid you care about try to cope? One of my patients was a, you know, person known to the public whom I was talking about this with.

Dr. David (25:47):

And she said, no, my childhood was really not that bad. Other people have been through much worse than I have. It turned out her parents fought with each other almost every day. Not physically, but verbally and emotionally, and she was an only child. So she took on the role of peacemaker and then her parents got divorced when she was age eight, which you would think would, you know, be a partial solution to her problem. But unfortunately, they kept living in the same house. They slept in several bedrooms, but you know, they still were fighting with each other. So from her perspective, it didn't do her any good at all. And she's telling me, no, this really wasn't so bad. So I said, okay, you have this beloved niece, a four or five, 6-year-old girl. You love this girl. You take her on with you on weekends and do fun things with her.

Dr. David (26:32):

You're just devoted to this little girl. Imagine her, your niece in that household, and you can only watch, you're watching your niece try to cope with your parents. What is that gonna be like for you? And she just stared at me. She was, you know, somebody who was very verbal, could carry on her end of a conversation all day long that just brought her to a halt. And she went on for a couple of minutes just pondering that idea. And then at the end she said, you know, after a week of watching that I would shoot myself. And that was the first time she had truly recognized just how difficult it really was. And that was the start of her treatment, which was successful. She had half a dozen different symptoms in her body for the last 20 years, and within a matter of months they were gone.

Dr. Kyrin (27:21):

I love that question. I think it's beautiful. I actually went through and took your quiz before we did the interview because I wanted to see what the questions were. And that question is on there. And I think that helps someone step out, I think people are very worried about blaming their parents and they don't wanna do that. And so that hence the denial. Most of us really appreciate all that our parents have done for us. And you know, even if there were difficulties, but when you step out as an observer and say, well, yeah, if there were a child like you, your patient said, I, I would shoot myself then, you know, and there really is no one to blame because they're only doing what they were taught by their parents and their parents and their parents and their parents.

Dr. David (28:03):

So they do the best they can.

Dr. Kyrin (28:05):

They do the best they can. So thank you for explaining that. And so people can also identify what are some of the most common symptoms that we're talking about?

Dr. David (28:16):

Yeah, I'm glad you asked 'cause we hadn't mentioned that it's literally head to toe. You can have pain symptoms and non-pain symptoms. So migraines ring in the ears, difficulty swallowing, visual disturbances, pseudo seizures, pain in the temporomandibular joint of the jaw. Neck pain, low back pain is a big one. Approximately 88% of low back pain is psychophysiologic in nature according to a recent study. Chest pain, abdominal pain, pelvic genital joint, difficulty breathing, unexplained cough, irritable bowel syndrome, fibromyalgia, irritable bowel can cause diarrhea, constipation, nausea, vomiting, bloating, indigestion, numbness and tingling in the extremities. The, the only common denominator is that people tend to have more than one symptom at a time. The more symptoms you have, the more likely it is a psychophysiologic cause is what's going on. And there's lots more that I haven't even thought to mention. Functional neurological disorder is another one. A lot of people with hypermobility disorder like Aler Danlos get all kinds of symptoms attributed to Aler Danlos that probably are not from the Aler Danlos. They're actually from psychophysiologic disorder.

Dr. Kyrin (29:37):

And so how are these symptoms triggered and why is understanding this so important to treatment?

Dr. David (29:44):

Well, the symptoms can be triggered by a particular stress that this happens most often in my patients with post-trauma, that they've been through some kind of terrifying or horrifying event. And then, the symptoms begin soon thereafter, or it could be the trauma was quite a number of years in the past, but some triggering event has happened that leads to the development of the symptoms. But sometimes the symptoms can just appear for seemingly no reason as part of the recovery process from adverse childhood experiences. For example, my very first patient, she was averaging one bowel movement per month despite taking four different laxatives at double the usual doses. And it just started when she was 35. She was the one who had been sexually abused hundreds of times. Nobody had touched her against her will for close to 25 years. But the illness just began in midlife.

Dr. David (30:40):

And why is that? Well, it turns out that there's a recovery process from childhood adversity, and at some point people reached a level where a lot of the buried emotions begin to come knocking on the door. She had a tremendous amount of outrage about how she'd been treated as a girl, but it had been repressed. In order to survive her childhood, she had to repress it. But in the middle of her thirties, it was finally time for her to confront this and deal with it. But the anger couldn't find a way into her conscious awareness. So instead it manifested in her body. And the psychiatrist, Dr. Kaplan helped her to recognize how much anger she had begun to talk about, putting it into words. And the more you can put repressed emotions into words, the less they have to express themselves via the body. And these can be not just anger, but I've had patients with fear, shame, guilt, grief, that we're responsible instead of anger.

Dr. Kyrin (31:39):

Yeah, I love that. I really think that the body is our subconscious mind and it will out picture anything that we don't acknowledge or feel, feel, feel consciously. Absolutely. And so, right, if we deny it, then our body has to express it. And that's probably an illness or pain. But when we acknowledge it and feel it and process it, then the body says, oh, thank you for doing your job so that I don't have to bring it to your attention. And I really see all dis-ease in the body as a signal. Yes, there could be some biochemical or anatomic problem if it's progressed, but it's really stemming from a lot of these emotional and psychological issues. And you talk about the effectiveness of what you call pain relief psychology for alleviating deep stress. And it consists of personality traits, triggers, and unrecognized emotions from ACEs. Can you talk a little bit more about what pain relief psychology is?

Dr. David (32:40):

Yeah, you bet. What it's all about is uncovering the stresses that a person has in their life, whether they are in the present day. I mean, a very simple example was a patient of mine who only got his pain when he was driving to work. When he was driving home from work, he was fine on the weekends when he was not at work, he was fine too <laugh>. So we kind of focused on, all right, what's going on at work? And, you know, that was a huge stress going on. So that was a very simple example. But more complicated is we're, we're trying to look at the long-term consequences of ACEs and the repressed emotions is a big one there. But we can also look at personality traits. Many people who've been through ACEs cope with those issues by developing certain personality traits. Their self-esteem, for one, is likely to be harmed and likely to be much lower than it deserves to be.

Dr. David (33:30):

Kids trying to cope with adversity oftentimes become very detail oriented, perfectionists. They tend not to be very assertive. They tend to focus on the needs of other people to the exclusion of putting themselves on the list of people. They take care of a whole long list of these personality traits that can be very stressful. But when you find out how you develop those personality traits, where they came from, who taught you these things about yourself that are not true, like, you know, you're a second rate or unworthy human being, and how did they teach those things to you? And we can understand that better. And that facilitates making changes in those personality traits, which then leads to a reduction in stress level. And then finally, I like to pay attention to triggers in someone's life. These are people, situations or events that are in some way linked to the past and are therefore very emotionally triggering.

Dr. David (34:26):

And the, the most common of those by far is that there's an ace perpetrator, you know, one of your parents usually that's still in your life today and is still mistreating you in some way. And that can lead to reactions in the body. One of my more dramatic examples of that is a patient who was hospitalized for a total of 51 days for her symptoms over a nine month period of time. And none of the many people who evaluated her asked her if anything stressful had happened right before she became ill. And it turned out that yes, something stressful had happened, which was that her father had a stroke and he was calling upon her for support. 3, 4, 5 days a week she'd be in his house helping him out. And this was a huge problem for her because she'd been avoiding her father for most of her adult life.

Dr. David (35:18):

And when I asked her why, she told me this story that nobody else had heard up to that point, which was that when she was six years old and her little brother was four, mom and dad had gone off to Las Vegas for a long weekend and she was staying with aunt and uncle on the Sunday that mom and dad were due to come back. They called up the aunt and uncle and they said, we're getting a divorce and we're not coming back. And that was the last she saw of her parents for the next 20 years. So there was, you know, enormous emotional tension in that relationship. Vinny has a stroke and she feels obligated as the daughter to go and help him out. But when she does that, and only is it difficult to be in his presence, as you might imagine, he's critical. If she doesn't do things exactly the way he wants her to, you know, you'd think he'd be grateful, but instead he doesn't hesitate to criticize her, which just twists the knife a little more. And not too surprising that she became physically ill in this situation, but nobody else had thought to delve into the possibility that her brain might be causing these symptoms, which are, if I haven't pointed it out yet, they're absolutely as real as symptoms from any other cause.

Dr. Kyrin (36:30):

You know, I love the examples you're giving. I think everyone's getting a really good idea. Wow, this could be me. My parents were divorced. I had just situations that are very adversarial and negative in our lives, but I think there's not a lot, a lot of acknowledgement about the emotional impact and now everybody's learning the physical impact. It was so interesting. I was recently traveling and I was in Dubai and I was having a problem with my right shoulder and arm, and I went to a physiotherapist and he did a bunch of manipulations, which really helped. And I started talking to him about emotions related to the different muscles and right arm, and it relates to the father's representation and all these things that I've studied over the years. And he said, what are you talking about <laugh>? He said he didn't know what I was talking about.

Dr. Kyrin (37:21):

And I said, well, you know, emotions can be stored in the body in different parts of the body or associated with different emotions. And he didn't, wasn't aware of this. But like you say, once you see it, you can't unsee it. So if you're listening to this, you're now having information that maybe your practitioners aren't aware of that you are going to be aware of, and you can start looking at your life. Wow, when do I get those migraines? Oh, let me see. It's about a couple days before this, such and such family members come to visit every time. And do I get stomach aches on the way to work? And there's some periodicity or relatedness to how you're living your life and the symptoms you're having. And when you start to sort that out, you can't unsee it. So how would someone get started? They can take your quiz. It might be possible that their practitioner is not versed in this. So how do you suggest that people get started having a proper assessment of pain relief psychology or I would say disease relief psychology? How do they go about doing this?

Dr. David (38:29):

Great place to start is with your physician to make sure that there's not a biomedical cause that you don't have an organ disease or an injury that could, the doctor thinks maybe there's a connection there, but you're not improving in the way that they expect. That would be another time to look and see if this psychophysiologic process could be contributing to your condition. And that 12 item quiz is a great place to start because it's got a lot of educational elements in it that can show you how some of these ideas might apply to you. And if they do, then we've got a lot of resources on the website that people can, it's end chronic pain.org that can help people delve into this more. There's a course on, there's several courses on there. Some of them are video, some of them are primarily text that can give you more information because information is the treatment here.

Dr. David (39:23):

The more you understand how this works, the more you understand how it applies to you, the more that you can do things to lead to improvement. This one of the techniques might be if you had an ace perpetrator in your life as a kid, writing a letter to that person. It's very challenging, as you pointed out earlier, to recognize that you might have some negative emotions towards someone that you also care about. And sorting that out, writing a letter to put those thoughts and feelings in there, both good and bad, not not to mail the letter just as an exercise, to write it as a way to take emotions and thoughts and feelings and put them into words that are written down that can pull ideas out of your head that you didn't necessarily know were there. And the more that you're able to do that, the less those things need to express themselves via the body.

Dr. David (40:16):

That's one of the techniques. There are apps for this that are very evidence-based, that one of them is called curable, that I recommend to patients. There are self-help books about this. We've got textbooks for healthcare professionals, but even the textbooks are written without jargon because we wanted the medical clinicians to be able to read the psychological material and vice versa. And one of the benefits of that is that if you're a science oriented reader, you can read one of these textbooks and get a lot out of it. I, I know psychophysiologic relief therapists who are prescribing even textbooks to their patients.

Dr. Kyrin (40:56):

Oh, I love that. Yeah. So definitely go to the website, we'll have the link in the show notes and take the quiz and start to investigate this. I mean, honestly, I think if you have any chronic condition, you could benefit from this. Definitely get a proper evaluation from your regular doctor. You might wanna also consider a functional approach, which I am particularly passionate about, and we often are able to fix and find root causes that mainstream medicine isn't able to address. But this even in a, from a functional perspective, is something that I think everybody should look into. I would be remiss if I didn't mention how this ties into hormones. And so briefly, because we're running out of time, I'm just gonna say that it ties in most likely to your cortisol stress hormone. 'cause We're talking about deep stress, we're talking about adverse childhood experiences, and this is going to deal with your HPA axis, hypothalamic pituitary adrenal axis, which relates to your cortisol. So if you were wondering, Hey, Dr. Karen, are you gonna tie this into hormones? There we did it. Bam, <laugh> <laugh>,

Dr. David (42:04):

Yeah, it's an additional source of stress on top of everything else. Yeah.

Dr. Kyrin (42:08):

Yeah. So Dr. Clark, any parting words before we wrap up?

Dr. David (42:13):

You know, I'll just say the bottom line here is that the brain can generate symptoms in the body, and these symptoms are every bit as real and can be every bit as severe as symptoms from any other cause. So if you're looking for the body's defects as an explanation for the symptoms and you're not finding it, then think about whether the brain could be generating these symptoms. You know, a a classic example is phantom limb pain where somebody's had an amputation and yet they feel pain at the site where the limb is, you know, no longer exists. That pain is being generated in the brain and it is very powerful. I mean, it has put some of my patients in the hospital, one of my patients was a 17-year-old who I was asked to see on their 70th day in the hospital.

Dr. David (43:02):

They were getting 10 milligrams of morphine an hour. You know, for a kid this size, five or 10 milligrams would be enough to treat the pain of a fractured leg for your patient's. Not familiar with morphine doses. This patient was getting 10 milligrams every hour. That was when we found the stress, we treated it successfully, and the patient was off of the hospital in a week and off of all opioids in 30 days. So just being aware that the brain can do this and the brain does this because of stress, which may be deep stress, it may be stress you don't fully recognize, it may be stress from far in the past. So start looking for those things. Use the quiz to help you find what those things might be. And then finally, effective treatment is available. We've got half a dozen randomized controlled trials now published in very rigorous journals that show dramatic benefits when these underlying issues are brought into the open and dealt with successfully. Yes.

Dr. Kyrin (44:00):

And when you go take the quiz, when you get your results in your email, there's a resource page that Dr. Clark has with all kinds of books and just a plethora of resources. So you'll have lots there to help you on your way. Thank you so much, Dr. Clark, for joining me today.

Dr. David (44:19):

Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure speaking with you.

Dr. Kyrin (44:22):

And I'll just wrap up by sharing another quote that you shared with me before we started recording. I'll leave everyone with this because I think it really gets to the heart of what we're talking about. And it is from Rita Cheren, who's also a doctor, and it is the work of medicine. Inconsiderable part rests on the doctor's ability to listen to the stories that patients tell, to make sense of those often chaotic narratives of illness, to inspect and evaluate the listener's response to the story told to understand what these narratives mean and to be moved by them. I hope that you are inspired to look at your own possible deep stress and adverse childhood experiences and how it might be impacting your health to take the quiz, to educate yourself. I really think that this is the next frontier that in the future at some date will be self-evident.

Dr. Kyrin (45:19):

That of course, doctors need to be addressing this with their patients. But as long as you are here and you know about it, you can use this information to take action on your own behalf. You don't have to wait for your doctors to catch up. You can get the help that's available to you now. So something to think about. Look forward to hearing your thoughts. Reach out to me on social media and let me know what your thoughts are about this and how it's helped you. I'll see you again next week. Thanks so much for joining me. Until then, peace, love, and hormones, y'all.

Dr. Kyrin (45:54):

Thank you so much for listening. I know that incredible vitality occurs for women over 40 when we learn to speak hormones and balance these vital regulators to create the health and the life that we deserve. If you're enjoying this podcast, I'd love it if you'd give me a review and subscribe. It really does help this podcast out so much. You can visit the hormone prescription.com where we have some free gifts for you, and you can sign up to have a hormone evaluation with me on the podcast to gain clarity into your personal situation. Until next time, remember, take small steps each day to balance your hormones and watch the wonderful changes in your health that begin to unfold for you. Talk to you soon.

 

► 12 item Self Assessment Questionnaire for brain-generated pain or illness by Dr. David Clarke. 

This 12-item questionnaire is designed to improve understanding of your pain or illness. The more questions to which you answer ‘Yes’, the more likely it is that a brain-to-body disorder (a Psychophysiologic Disorder or PPD) is contributing significantly to your condition. For any concerns raised by these questions, we recommend discussion with a medical or mental health professional.

CLICK HERE to access the questionnaire.

 

► Are you tired of feeling like you're losing control at midlife? Weight gain, low energy, and a decrease in sex drive are all too common. But it doesn't have to be that way.

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Imagine waking up with more energy than ever before. Feeling confident and sexy in your own body. No more mood swings or uncontrollable weight gain – just pure blissful balance throughout menopause.

Sign up now for our 7-day challenge and start seeing incredible results within days! Attend daily interactive Q&As with our experts, take assessments to track your progress, and learn the exact steps needed to achieve hormonal harmony. You deserve this – don't wait any longer!

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► Feeling tired? Can't seem to lose weight, no matter how hard you try?

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Dr. Ryan Wohlfert | Essential Spinal Hygiene For Your Hormonal Function & Vitality

In this pivotal episode of The Hormone Prescription Podcast, your host unlocks the secret link between spinal health and hormonal balance with none other than the spine whisperer himself, Dr. Ryan Wohlfert.

Dr. Wohlfert isn't just any expert; he's a titan in the realm of spinal wellness—a Certified Mindset Specialist, Certified Chiropractic Sports Physician, and a master in the esteemed art of Chiropractic BioPhysics®. With over 23 years of transforming lives through education and renowned clinical practice, he returns to the podcast with an invigorating discussion on Essential Spinal Hygiene for Your Hormonal Function & Vitality.

Key Insights From This Episode:

• The Spine-Hormone Connection: Dr. Ryan unravels how the spine directly influences our hormonal symphony and why maintaining spinal integrity can sing health into our lives.
• A Lifetime of Vitality: Discover Dr. Ryan's spinal correction protocol, a groundbreaking approach that has helped alleviate chronic pain and fend off dysfunction and disease for thousands.
• Beyond Manipulation: Learn how specific spinal care goes a step further than traditional chiropractic work, empowering not just relief, but a total revival of energy and endurance.
• The Pillars of Pain-Free Living: Dr. Ryan shares his wisdom on how simple, daily spinal hygiene practices can liberate you from the grips of medication and pave the way for a lifetime of vibrant, pain-free living.
• Mindset Matters: Embark on a mindset makeover that aligns your spinal health goals with success, as Dr. Wohlfert elaborates on how mental fortitude underpins physical wellbeing.

Dr. Ryan's Mantra for Listeners: "Your spine is the conduit of life energy. Nourish it, and it will nourish every cell in your body. Neglect it, and wellness will elude you. It's that simple, and it's that miraculous."

Stay tuned as Dr. Ryan leads us through the intricacies of spinal hygiene and its paramount role in nurturing our hormonal health—not just for today, but for a future brimming with vitality.

And remember, your pathway to hormone harmony might just begin with a healthy spine.

 

Speaker 1 (00:00):

You don't have to do anything except deal with the consequences of your choices. Dr. Ryan Wohlfert, stay tuned to find out what you're not doing for your spine that could be affecting your hormones and your health.

Speaker 2 (00:14):

So the big question is, how do women over 40 like us, keep weight off, have great energy, balance our hormones and our moods, feel sexy and confident, and master midlife? If you're like most of us, you are not getting the answers you need and remain confused and pretty hopeless to ever feel like yourself again. As an O-B-G-Y-N, I had to discover for myself the truth about what creates a rock solid metabolism, lasting weight loss, and supercharged energy after 40, in order to lose a hundred pounds and fix my fatigue, now I'm on a mission. This podcast is designed to share the natural tools you need for impactful results and to give you clarity on the answers to your midlife metabolism challenges. Join me for tangible, natural strategies to crush the hormone imbalances you are facing and help you get unstuck from the sidelines of life. My name is Dr. Kyrin Dunston. Welcome to the Hormone Prescription Podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:08):

Hi everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Hormone Prescription with Dr. Kyrin. Thank you so much for joining me today as we dive in with Dr. Ryan Wohlfert to talk about the spine and spinal hygiene. I know you're thinking my spine takes care of itself. I don't need to do anything for it. You need to think again, <laugh>, you really do. Your spine needs TLC. It is your backbone. It houses what your central nervous system, your brain, brings to the rest of your body. And a lot of us, many of us may have problems with it in our lifetime, overt or surreptitious, but it can cause problems in the long run if you're not doing some simple things like you brush your teeth every day and floss, right? There are things you need to do for your spine, but you know, it's pretty obvious when you have a tooth problem because you get a toothache or your teeth turn yellow or you get bad breath or right.

Speaker 1 (02:03):

It's pretty obvious, but you're probably not gonna have the obvious signs from your spine until a problem is down the line and has become more severe. And there's some simple things you can do for your spine, just like brushing your teeth and flossing that you can do for your spine and why that's super important. So, Dr. Ryan's gonna dive in with us on that topic. He has some great quotes, <laugh>, like the one that I shared with you in the beginning, and he really has a deep knowledge of this subject and can speak about it in a really down to earth, practical way. I think you're gonna enjoy it. So without further ado, I will tell you a little about Dr. Ryan and then we'll get started. So, he's a certified mindset specialist. Love that. He is a certified chiropractic sports physician and certified chiropractic biophysics physician. He uses a specific spinal correction protocol to help patients resolve chronic pain and avoid dysfunction and disease. Yes. So he has over 23 years of education and clinical experience. He's worked with thousands of people to improve their spine energy longevity, eliminate dependence on medication, and make simple healthy pain-free living possible. Please help me welcome Dr. Ryan Wolfert to the

Speaker 3 (03:21):

show. Thanks for having me, doc. I appreciate you, you reaching out and us getting able to talk.

Speaker 1 (03:27):

Yeah, I think that this is such an important topic because it's very neglected, I'll say in the functional medicine space, even though we cover a lot of things, we don't cover the bioenergetics of the body, which I think is super important. And we really don't cover the structural aspects which are super important. And part of your metabolic homeostasis, right, from a, from your bones and your muscles, they're very highly metabolically active tissues. And this all ties into the bones and the musculoskeletal system into the spine, which is kind of ground zero, I'll call it, for your overall musculoskeletal balance. So I think it's super important, and that's why everybody listening needs to listen up and pay attention to this. Don't just say, oh, I don't have any spine problems, <laugh>. Right? And if you're saying that you might, you're likely to have a very high possibility of that in your life. And this contributes to your overall metabolic and hormonal health, believe it or not. And we're gonna get into that a little more. So welcome and I, I would say Dr. Ryan, you're a chiropractor by training, right? Correct. And so what makes you focus more on the spine than anything else? How did you come in your chiropractic career to believe that that's really the linchpin?

Speaker 3 (04:56):

I love that. And I love what you said right at the beginning too, how, you know, especially in functional medicine, the mechanical aspects of things and structural aspects do get pushed to the background because we're, nutrition is important obviously, but the mechanics of how your body uses that nutrition is also important. And with the spine, my whole journey with the spine started when I was a kid, when I was 13 years old and I had my first migraine headache, and I'm already jumping the gun there. But again, I had these episodes and I would have headaches and I would have colds, and I would have infections and I would've bronchitis and all these things, but I was still an active kid, you know, playing all these sports with my brothers in the backyard and, and eating homemade food that my mom would make.

Speaker 3 (05:49):

But one time, or I shouldn't say one time, the first time I remember was sitting in class and all of a sudden I couldn't see outta my right eye. The right side of my body went numb like this, I shouldn't say numb, but a tingly feeling in my hand and down my leg. And just seeing spots, you know how you look at the sun and you get that sun spot or a light? Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>. But I couldn't see out of my eye. And then the craziest thing, and probably the scariest thing happened about 20 to 30 minutes after those symptoms started is I couldn't talk. Like I would just, I could have thoughts, but the words weren't coming out. And this was all, I was in class. I was, oh my gosh, asking questions and I didn't know what it was. But then after those symptoms, about a half hour, that's when I got my first migraine headache, like just this debilitating headache.

Speaker 3 (06:43):

I didn't, like I said, like I said, I thought it was just a headache, just a really bad one. So I went home, slept, and probably took some Tylenol and some ibuprofen that my mom gave me. I don't know, I can't remember. So it went away after a day or two, and then I was again sitting in class and it happened again the next week. So a week later it happened again. I knew what was gonna happen or after, like those first symptoms, the tingling, the sun, like the spots that I couldn't see went down to the school office and asked the secretary, I asked her, you know, I, I'm gonna have a bad headache. Do you have any Tylenol that I can take? And so what she said actually changed the course of my life. She said, I can't give you that, but what it sounds like, it sounds like you got a pinched nerve and you need to go see my chiropractor <laugh>.

Speaker 3 (07:35):

So again, I was 10 years old, in the eighth grade. I was like, whatever. It's not like I could take myself, but she called my mom to come pick me up. And she told my mom when she came to pick me up, the same thing she told me. So then we went to the chiropractic office of her chiropractor. He took x-rays, showed me my spine was crooked, which was, I still remember that, again, I'm just giving you a summary version of it. But it was all very thorough. And I remember us sitting in the room, he showed my mom and myself the x-rays and said, look right there, it's on crooked. So then I got my first adjustment, and it was like fireworks went up. It was just, wow. Just, he said, feel your face. And all the circulation I could feel, my face was like beet red and was warm because the circulation was coming back.

Speaker 3 (08:23):

And so that was my first experience and it, it, it wasn't right then that I said, oh man, I'm gonna be a chiropractor. But it gave me the taste of it. And ever since then I've been, I've been going, but along the way, it wasn't until probably my, my junior, up until my junior year of high school, I was gonna be an engineer, a mechanical engineer. That's what my focus was. But then going into my senior year, somebody told me about kinesiology. Like, whoa, that sound, what's that? The study of human movement, the study of movement, musculoskeletal system, how the body works with that. So I I went into that major and while I was there, that's kinda like a stepping stone to either pre-med, athletic training, physical therapy, occupational therapy. But while I was at University of Michigan my freshman year, I was like, you know what I, I know the power of chiropractic and how the spine works.

Speaker 3 (09:16):

So that's where my focus led and it's been great along the way. Obviously I've learned a lot. You probably know as well as anybody the, your education and ex it starts after you get outta school. That's basically because after the last, you know, I've been a chiropractor for over 23 years, and the last 15 of it has been in this corrective form, which we'll talk a lot about today and the research behind that and how this actual structure, 'cause you know, there's chiropractic that, again, the adjustments are great, but if you're trying to fix the structure and posture and the, the normal curves of the spine and the positioning of the spine because of how the ligaments and muscles and nerves all intertwine, the adjustment is great for a jumpstart. But if you want to correct the actual positioning and structure and alignment of it, then you have to create a sustained load onto it.

Speaker 3 (10:13):

Similar to how braces correct the structure of teeth. Just like we can't push on our teeth one time a week or one time even a day, and it will correct the structure of them. There needs to be a sustained load to do that. And that's again, what we focus on. And by correcting those curves and the structure and the normal positioning of the spine, that takes the stress off of the nerves, off of the musculoskeletal system. So like how you mentioned ground zero is the spine. I, you know, I like to say it's the foundation of our strength and our function, because if that's off, then it puts excess wear and tear on the rest of the system.

Speaker 1 (10:54):

Right. So you said so much in there that's so rich, thank you for that. Before we dive into ground zero, I, I just have to point out a few things that you mentioned. So you said you were gonna go into mechanical engineering, which is interesting because you kind of are a mechanical engineer just of humans, not machines. And it gets to something else that you mentioned. It's interesting how many of us, I want everyone listening to think back, how many times did you go to the school nurse in your educational career with an ache, a bump, a pain for us ladies, a lot of times it's menstrual problems. And did they just give you a Tylenol or a Motrin, right, for your cramps, for your headache? They just gave you the pill. But it's fascinating to me that you are now in the pro profession and path that you're on and that this woman said something completely different.

Speaker 1 (11:49):

And out of the blue from 99.9% of the school nurses globally, that actually planted seeds that impacted the course of your life. Or rather, maybe she was one of your guides along that path, kind of planted by the divine, the universe, whatever you like to call it, to guide you on your path. And, and why I think this is so important. So why I'm so passionate about what I do is yes, do I want people, women, particularly women over 40, but all women to be as healthy as possible, vital and alive and feel great in their bodies? Yes. But it's so that you can live your purpose, live your passion. And a lot of women, they're so stuck in their health problems that they've even stopped dreaming about that passion. They've stopped listening to that internal voice that's guiding them. They're like, I just, Karen, I get it, but I just wanna feel better.

Speaker 1 (12:47):

But what I find is when I work with you to get you feeling better, then you're like, okay, now I wanna get back on my path and my purpose, what I think Dr. Ryan shared there was so key because all along your life you've been getting these seeds planted, these walk in angels who say things to you that are so out of the blue, like instead of here's the Tylenol, you've got a pinched nerve and you need to go to the chiropractor. And a lot of times we discount those and we think, oh, this is happening to everyone. I know I've done that. Oh, this happens to everyone. But now looking back, you know, I was in the nurse's office with period problems <laugh> from the time I first got my period, right. Not realizing that that was guiding me on my path to women's health. So I just wanna highlight that. Thank you for sharing that very beautiful story because people listen, they're also looking to feel better, but they're also looking for their purpose once they feel better. So I think it's beautiful and, and anything you wanna add about that, please feel free to. But welcome to drive into Ground zero, whatever you feel called.

Speaker 3 (13:55):

I love that you brought that piece into it because I got the chills. You just say that, you know, the divine and God just leading me in that direction and you're not really, you don't know it, you know, until, until you know it, until again, I was going through my journey and you mentioned the mechanical engineering part of it. You're right, essentially that's what we're re-engineering, we're restructuring the body. It's interesting because this technique that we use, it's called CBP chiropractic biophysics, which you mentioned in the intro. It's it, the, the person who developed it, he you know, is a doctor of chiropractic, but he's also, he had a, a master's in engineering and a master's in in math. So he understood the relationship between that of the body and the mechanics and how that affects the overall health of the, because he has such a deep understanding of it.

Speaker 1 (14:53):

I have not heard of the term chiropractic biophysics. I'm gonna have to look it up. But is this related to, so I went to a chiropractor several years ago who was unlike any chiropractor I had been to before, and I've been to many of them. And he was the one who really introduced me to this whole concept that if there's a torque in your structural mechanics, meaning your spine, and it's kind of twisted and off kilter and things aren't aligned properly, that it alters the way blood flows through all of your blood vessels. It alters the ability of cells to take up nutrients and distribute nutrients that everything is affected. And he's like, think of, if you kind of take a city and you twist it a little, like take Manhattan, which kind of looks like a person and you twist it a little, well then Broadway isn't gonna, the traffic's not gonna flow smoothly along Broadway like it's supposed to. And then, you know, the UPS guy isn't gonna be able to deliver the packages properly 'cause there's gonna be traffic jams at certain places. So think of your blood vessels getting torqued and then calcium can't be delivered and then potassium and blood glucose can't be distributed properly. Is that what you're talking about? Or is it, am I totally off base?

Speaker 3 (16:12):

No, that's a great analogy. The flow of information, the flow of communication gets interrupted because, and that's a big reason why the spine is ground zero, why it's the foundation. And I think it's one of, I think it's the main reason why it's so important is because it houses the nervous system, the spinal cord and the nerve roots. So if you torque that as well as, again, it, it will alter the circulation like you had mentioned. And that's actually been shown through at least one study in, called in brain circulation journal, showing how the curve of the neck, which we haven't even gotten in the structure yet and what the normal structure is. But you should have this normal side curve of the neck and when you lose that, it alters the vertebral artery chemodynamics of that. So it's not delivering the oxygen, not delivering the blood to the brain, and then you can't get rid of the waste either.

Speaker 3 (17:04):

But no, that's very similar and like that torque that you mentioned, if there's some sort of mm-hmm, <affirmative> interference like that, and it's not allowing the communication just downriver down the highway. Like I love that analogy. Now the UPS driver can, you know, deliver the package. That's how our organs and organ systems can be affected by the spine not being in the correct alignment because it, you know, at the end of that highway route of that UPS driver is somebody's house. Well, at the end of these nerve roots and or the spinal cord, nerve roots to nerves at the end of those are your organs as well as your muscles and cells and all these tissues that they have to have this communication back and forth. Where if they don't, now the body, the brain's gonna try to figure things out on its own.

Speaker 3 (17:55):

And here is, I call it a perfect design, but somebody might call it a cruel joke. <Laugh>, your body, your body can handle a certain amount of dysfunction before it gives you symptoms, right? Right. If you felt a symptom every time you did something stressful to the body and that symptom didn't go away, you, your body, you wouldn't be able to function. So we need that nice communication in order for the brain to make decisions on what the body and the organs and the cells and tissue should be doing, including absorbing nutrients, including having your body heal and, and making the correct amount of hormones for, for, for, for your body.

Speaker 1 (18:32):

Right? And yes, so hopefully everybody listening, you're getting the picture right? And so this chiropractor was explaining to me like you're explaining like if you can do all the functional type of treatments you want, take all the supplements, change your diet, but if your skeletal system is wonky, which you proceeded to show me how mine looked wonky, you're not getting the proper delivery of nutrients, balance of hormones, excretion of waste. And isn't this happening to all of us just from gravity and living? We're all losing our C curve with us sitting and crouching over computers all day long. And kinda what are the situations that we're dealing with in everyday life that are causing us to have difficulties, whether we know it or not. Like you said, we might not have symptoms and we might think we're fine <laugh>, so please enlighten

Speaker 3 (19:27):

Us. I got you led right into it. Beautiful. Because yeah, with the world that we're living in today, just going at a global level, you know, six in 10 US adults have at least one chronic condition. What does it have to do with the spine? Well, if you look at our world, almost 70% of us are in the distorted spinal posture that go forward hunched over prolonged flexed posture that leads to chronic issues and including chronic pain and disability fatigue, accelerated aging and arthritis, anxiety and mood problems, and increased medication use, which is a big you know, that's one of the things that I never wanna be on any medications, and this is, and I never will because I already put that in my mindset. And yes, it even impacts our hormones and our metabolic system. So what's even more, which I think is the most interesting part of what people don't know about the spine, is that multiple studies show that this spinal posture, you know, losing the C curve, as you mentioned, that hyper kyphosis of the mid back, that slump hunchback posture Mm-hmm <affirmative> that significantly increases the risk of death from heart disease, pulmonary issues, and all causes, which is surprising to a lot of people until we explain it, is think about it, if we're in that hunchback posture where our, the stress is on the nerves going to the heart, going to the lungs, going to the, the gut.

Speaker 3 (20:56):

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> not only nerve stress, but just mechanically, if we're in that hunch position, well now again, we're putting increased mechanical stress on the heart to work the lungs. We can't, you know, get, you know, air into our lungs because there's not even enough space for that. So these, you already mentioned a few, you know, our phones, you know, sitting at a computer on the couch looking down, you know, propped up in our lazboy, driving, you know, even lying down, sleeping either on the couch or in bed or propping up ourselves up on pillows. But yeah, the major one is the phones being on our, our technology, which it's nice and I know that's not going away. So we better know how to counteract that stress with exercises, with adjusting our lifestyle with specific forms of, of traction we call it. Especially if you are already caught in that position where you have arthritis, where you have chronic back pain, where you have, you know, low energy, that's a big one because your body is fighting day after day just against gravity to stand up.

Speaker 3 (22:03):

And I'm saying a lot here, but I like to put images in, in people's heads and give analogies. If, if you are a, a, a parent or a grandparent and you, there's a, you know, when you had your babies and they were 10 pounds, 15 pounds as there were, you know, hopefully not 15 pounds when they were born, that'd be a, a pretty big baby. But if you took that 15 pound weight or 20 pound person, or even if you don't have a baby around or can't think back to that, just get a dumbbell or aa weight plate or something, 15 pounds and hold it at arms length away from your body. So that's like having this hunched posture where your head's forward and collapsing down is if you have a weight that's 15 to 20 pounds out away from you, do you see how your muscles, your spine, your joints are gonna be on overload, trying just to hold you up against gravity. And now we add things onto it to make it even tougher. So if we retrain our posture and spine using specific techniques to take that stress off of it, bring that weight closer to the body, now we're decreasing the stress, yes, on the spine, but also the spinal cord we're decreasing. And by that we're also decreasing stress on your organs, on your metabolism, on your entire cell tissue system, anywhere that these nerves go. Right? So that's how that works.

Speaker 1 (23:28):

Yeah, I love how you detailed that. It's, it's funny, I became a nomad about a year and a half ago. I've traveled all over the world and I don't know, somehow I thought in America, maybe we were in a bubble that we're all on our phones all day long. Everywhere. But no, everywhere I go, <laugh>, <laugh>, all, all over Africa, the Middle East, and now I'm in London, everybody's on their phone all the time in that hunched over position. And you listen, you know, you do it too. So I love this quote you shared with me before we started. You don't have to do anything except deal with the consequences of your choices. Your choices. So why I love that so much is that a lot of times we're not aware of the consequences of our choices. What are the consequences of being hunched over on our phone all day or our computer every day?

Speaker 1 (24:19):

And you're really highlighting that for us. You're waking us up to, oh, this is something I need to pay attention to. Whether or not I'm having a spine problem or a pain problem. It's something I need to pay attention to. And I know you've got solutions, <laugh>. So we're gonna dive into that. But before we do that, how would somebody know if this is like, you need to drop everything and take care of this now position, or this applies to everyone, including me, and I need to start integrating some things into my daily life. What are some symptoms people might have to know where they fall on this continuum of needing acute attention or care versus, oh, this is a chronic problem and I do need to pay attention to it. Like fixing your diet. How do they know?

Speaker 3 (25:07):

An acute problem would be like any types of acute injuries, especially if you had like sciatica, shooting pain, debilitating pain, like with me when I was, when I had my migraines, that was a sign to me and that was well sign to our school secretary to tell us that, to, to tell me that any type of intense pain would be a, alright, you need to get this checked out. Which again, pain is a great motivator. So that's kind of a simple way to know if you have more on that lower spectrum, but still low energy and fatigue is another big one because your body's wasting so many resources. If your body is in this, your spine is in this distorted, abnormal, weakened position. So those are the two big main ones. Chronic pain in different areas of your body, especially spine and the nerves, disc problems arm, if we're talking may with a neck stiffness, achiness, where again you see a progression of not able to turn your head side to side, tilt it pain, shooting down the arm, numbness, tingling in your hands.

Speaker 3 (26:17):

Those are all signs of, okay, acute, get these checked out. Now if and hopefully that answered the question with that. If you are, and I'm glad you asked this, because if you don't have these acute symptoms, how can you test yourself to see what your spinal posture is like? And I love that. 'cause That's the, basically that's the first step is how do you assess to make sure that my ears over my shoulders, over my hip is over my ankle? 'cause That's the normal posture. We're looking at you straight ahead. We wanna make sure that if we have a, a straight line or a plumb line dropped down from the ceiling, we want your pelvis under the middle of your chest, under your, you know, middle of your head, like right between your, your eyes. Any deviation from those, again, you can, we call it, you do a selfie test where you take a, you got your phone, right?

Speaker 3 (27:08):

And you can try to take a selfie, you set it up somewhere and take a picture of yourself. Just get in a comfortable standing position looking straight at it, take a picture. And then also you could from the side especially, and you wanna make sure that you're going from the ground up, that your ankle is right on top of your, the outside of your hip, and then your shoulder and ear are all lined up. So that's one easy way. You can also look in the mirror for the front one. It's a little bit harder to do with the, the side, you know, a side picture of your body. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>. Now another good one is the wall test because the most common postural distortion is that, you know, the hunchback, right? So you can stand up against a wall, your back is against a wall.

Speaker 3 (27:51):

Your feet are about two to four inches away from the wall. The back of your, your heels, your hips, your mid back. Your head should touch the wall. If you can't get your head to touch the wall comfortably, again, more than likely you're, there's arthritis. That's the hunchback, it's the degeneration of the disc. It's the common problem with osteoporosis because if they get weak spinal bones and fracture, not, they don't even need acute fractures, but these chronic fractures on the front, it, makes it hard for you to get in that aligned position. So that's another wall test. You can also do it lying down. Now if you, if you're lying down on your back and your head, it's uncomfortable to have your head on the floor or it can't even get in that position. I would call that more of an acute case where you need to get that checked out because you're stuck there. The restrictions that ligaments have gotten so fibrotic and so worn out and they're tight, that it can't do it. Like the muscles by themselves are not gonna allow you to do that. So just postural exercises and exercise by itself won't allow you to get back in the healthy position. Mm-Hmm,

Speaker 1 (29:11):

<Affirmative>. Okay. Does that make sense, yeah. Yeah. Those are some great tips on things to do the wall test or lay on the floor doing the selfie. Or even if you could get someone to take a photo of you from the side or the front and kind of look at this alignment. You know, I have found that some of these skews in your posture are so subtle that I can't necessarily tell them. But then I go to the chiropractor and they're like, duh, <laugh>, don't you see this? You know how your left hip is slightly higher than your Right, right? And, you know, they look at leg length and they're like, oh, this foot is a centimeter longer than the other leg. And they can really see it. Like, you guys have this very acute vision. And so I like that you're really,

Speaker 3 (29:56):

It's just like, you're just like, you're trained in what you do that I wouldn't be able to see, just like the, the listener, they're, they're trained in what they do. Like that whole purpose thing that you mentioned at the beginning, that purpose is what your skill is in, in developing that skill. Because I know I'll be adjusting to somebody in my brick and mortar clinic and I will like to start working on them. And they're like, I, how did you know that was there? It's just, you know, after 20 some years of doing it, you get a feel for it based on the symptoms they're telling me or their posture or what it is. Same thing again, in your profession. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (30:34):

Yeah. You just know. And everybody listening, I love this other quote you shared Dr. Ryan, don't complain about the results you didn't get from the work. You didn't do <laugh>. So if you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I hear you Dr. Kyrin and Dr. Ryan, I know I should be tense paying attention to my spine, but I'm not gonna do it. I'm not gonna lie on the floor. I'm not gonna go against, well I'm not gonna do this selfie. Well then don't complain. 5, 10, 20 years down the line, <laugh>, when you didn't do the work. Like, these are simple things y'all you can do tonight when you're at home or you know, wherever you are. Just stop, drop and do it really quickly to see if, if it applies to you, what are some things that we need to be doing. You know, I think a lot of us got the memo on aerobic exercise. Hopefully more women, if you're listening, have got the memo about the weight bearing exercise resistance training, essential for us women, almost more important than the aerobic exercise. But so many women don't do it. Shy away from it. It's super important. But what things do we need to be doing for exercise for our spine to preserve it, to reverse or counteract some of these kyphotic positions we're in all day long? Well, what do we need to be doing?

Speaker 3 (31:49):

Beautiful. I love that because that exercise is part of it. I've said the words a little bit at the be, you know, as we've gone through this, but as a simple little acronym, think of eat EAT, that is the protocol of chiropractic biophysics. So EAT stands for exercise adjustment and traction. And I'll go quickly through each of those because when you hear, like, I'll just touch on for a second, adjust you think, okay. Adjustment of the spine. But I'll, I'll show you how adjusting your lifestyle also is under that adjusted part of it. But let's start with exercise. You mentioned great ones, general exercise that you just mentioned. Beautiful. Not even gonna talk about that. But now there's general spinal exercises that you can do. And I know they'll have access to the spinal hygiene mini class. And this is part of that, but I'll go over it here. It's just like we take care of our teeth and brush our teeth every day, or at least what we're supposed to.

Speaker 3 (32:48):

We wanna take care of our spine every day. And it doesn't have to take long. Very simply taking your spine through all of its ranges of motion at least once a day, maybe even twice a day. So what are the ranges of motion? So side to side, bending side to side. I know people can't see me, but as I'm doing it, <laugh> I have to do the actions as I do it. So your trunk and then also your head and neck, the rotation, just taking it, rotating it side to side. And you can either hold at the pain-free end range of motion for 10 seconds, or you can do five to 10 reps in each direction with these. If you have, I'll put the caveat right now, or the disclaimer, if you have osteoporosis or fractures, you want to be careful with the twisting and with these exercises, that's why it's always gentle, it's always controlled.

Speaker 3 (33:38):

So we have the side to side, we have the rotation. Now we want to flex. Although we are in this prolonged flexed posture for a lot of, you know, most of our day, we still wanna be able to do that motion. We just don't wanna be in that chronically flexed position. So flexing down, like either doing like a, and then also extending back. So the cat cow, a lot of people are familiar with that exercise or on your hands and knees where you're rounding your back, taking your chin towards your chest and then arching it up, squeezing the shoulder blades, dropping the pelvis down, but you're flexing the spine and extending rounding and then flattening going towards their, I don't like to say extreme, but their, their final range of motion under control gently and pain free. So that's called spinal hygiene. And just like I said, taking two minutes outta your day to do that. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (34:32):

I love that. And you could even do it while you're brushing your teeth. You know that great book Tiny Habits where one of his main tips was to link a new habit to something else that you already do. So if you're already religious about your teeth, brushing, flossing, all the things and the evening, then you could just tack on spinal hygiene to your dental hygiene right after. So it makes it super easy. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.

Speaker 3 (34:57):

That's okay. And there are more sp if, if you find during the assessment or if you ever get your spine checked from a doctor that specializes in, especially this corrective technique and like you said, Dr. Karen, we're good at seeing things that other people can't either through x-rays or through this postural analysis. But if you find during your assessment, your self-assessment, that your posture stinks, for lack of a better word, that it's, it's not aligned, your head's in front of your shoulders, your kyphotic or your, you know, your body side to side, one shoulder lower than the other, your head's tipped. There are specific postural exercises, spinal exercises that we would recommend based on your specific needs in the opposite direction to counteract that postural distortion. So unlike exercise, generally, you know, general exercise, we wanna do it bilaterally or if we go in one direction, we wanna do it on the other side of the body.

Speaker 3 (35:55):

Specific. Postural and spinal exercises are different because you have to counteract the position it's already in. So if I'm hunched over, heads forward, we don't wanna do a prolonged exercise where we're doing that, but we're doing an exercise where we're bringing the shoulder blades back, taking the head back, called the full spine exercise breathing. And it's not just a stretch, but it's retraining. Holding that position for five to 10 seconds, starting off at three sets of 10 reps and working your way up to even like 5, 6, 7 sets of 10 reps every day because we have to retrain it. Now you could do that type of exercise if you are at a computer, if you're hunched over, if you're on the couch for 20 to 30 minutes. And it's always good to have a timer on. So, mm-hmm, <affirmative>, another little tip, a timer on at 20 or 30 minutes. So you get up and just do this exercise for like 30 seconds where you're shoulders squeezing your shoulder blades back, taking your head back. That actually helps to increase circulation. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>, which you'll feel. So that's the exercise part of it now.

Speaker 1 (37:00):

Yeah. Well I wanna add in there. Yeah, I just wanna put a plug for yoga. 'cause I always say that the triad is aerobic weight bearing and stretching because the constriction of your joints where the connective tissue starts hardening and getting tighter happens very gradually that you don't even notice it. And then before long, you know, you're having trouble reaching over your head or you can't touch your toes or whatever. And so yoga takes you generally through a lot of these stretches. So I wanna put a plugin for that, but please proceed.

Speaker 3 (37:32):

No, those are exactly the three cardio weight bearing resistance type training and flexibility ability. Absolutely. And it's funny because we'll get into the, with the traction part, eat, we'll talk about that. You said it perfectly. The connective tissues get tense, they get tight and you don't even know what's happening. And, and how do you correct that? So it is an adjustment. So adjusting the spine, which chiropractors are known for, but like I said in the beginning, it's not gonna correct the structure long term. It's gonna give you a jumpstart to a dead battery like I did with my daughter's car this morning. It's going to again give you, get the nerves working again and functioning, but also adjust talks about lifestyle, how you sit, how you stand, how you bend, lift, sleep, how you carry things. Think about your day and the postures that you're in and how you can improve on the postures that you're using.

Speaker 3 (38:27):

The biggest one, which we've mentioned multiple times, is on your phone, on your smartphone. I'm not sure how your phone being down in your lap or your tablet or your, well it's called a laptop. So I guess that's why, how that became the normal positioning to look at your phone. But it's very simple how to correct that, how to adjust the positioning of that. If you're sitting down, make sure your butt is up against the back of the chair of the couch, whatever it is, prop pillows behind you to keep you more upright. And then you can also put pillows or blankets or something on your lap. Rest your elbows on those blankets or pillows on your lap. Bend your elbows in arms to about 90 degrees or more and bring your phone towards, you know, more in front of your face. Definitely in front of, more like the chest area.

Speaker 3 (39:20):

Chest level, not down in your lap. And, have that be the normal position. Have, you know, let's make it so when we see somebody in the flex position looking down at their phone, you know, walking around or standing there waiting for something or at the airport waiting, that, that becomes like the abnormal where it's like, man, that doesn't look very good. Let's, let's lift it up so you can do this. Not just when you're sitting, but when you're standing too. Check your posture with that. So that's the, I will say another lifestyle adjustment. How you bend. It's not all about squatting, but it's more of a, in weightlifting terms, like a deadlift or a hip hint, you want to hinge at the hips when you're, you're bending because we're not always gonna be in a, I wanna say position to squat, but we're not always gonna be squatting. So we need to learn how to use our hips to bend. And I'll give a plug to a great technique called foundation training. It teaches you how to use your hips using this hip pinch. And I explained it in one of my, one of my handouts. But yes, how you hold your phone and how you bend are two huge things that you can adjust in your lifestyle.

Speaker 1 (40:31):

Awesome. Those are super important. We are running out of time, but before we wrap up, and I know you've got some great resources for everyone we wanna share, you mentioned osteoporosis or osteo products, spinal fractures, which are horrific. We don't want anyone here to have those. They're very silent, but they're also very painful and they're devastating because they do decrease your lung capacity. So your ability to breathe and, and oxygenate your tissues and have so many consequences. Can you just talk a little bit about osteoporosis? I can't tell you how many women I come across who have not had osteoporosis screening and they are well beyond the age at which they qualify for that or the medical risk factors that should qualify them and their doctors aren't talking to them about it. So I'm wondering if you could just put a plug in for women to get osteoporosis screening, what that should consist of, who should be getting it and how important it's, well,

Speaker 3 (41:30):

I don't know, like, you know, that's not in my area. I just see a lot of it because of the spine that I, you know, the, the 'cause I've been on the spinal health and because we have to make sure with that, I mean obviously Kevin Ellis is really good at explaining that Margie Bissinger because they deal more with osteoporosis. So look them up obviously. And you are even very well versed in what, when people should be getting checked because as they go through life changes and hormonal changes that affects the bones, that affects the, the, the strength and the density and the mineralization of the bones. But also what I, I like to point out too is I'm gonna take it back to the spine. Osteoporosis will affect the spine, it will affect your posture and that hyper kyphosis, especially if it's weak. So if we're weakening the bones, if we're weakening the bones of the spine, it's gonna cause these micro fractures, it's gonna cause degenerated disc because now there's increased stress on that, it's gonna cause that hunchback.

Speaker 3 (42:30):

So if you're, you know, per menopausal postmenopausal, they need to get that checked. But even more I think it is important to learn these things that you're teaching through nutrition, through detox, through posture, through sleep, all these healthy living practices to help prevent it. Yes, I know it's, it's a big, big story right now. And I think another big reason why osteoporosis is so profound and rampant now is the medications that people are taking. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> the side effects of these. And there's patients who I've talked to that have been on, they were on 20 years of, of prednisone and it's a steroid which weakens the bones 20 years. And those are obviously acute, special, hopefully they're special cases and not the norm because that is just gonna make your bones trash if you have been on medications, that's a, a good benchmark there is, if you've been on medications for a long period of time, it doesn't have to be steroids, it doesn't have to be prednisone.

Speaker 3 (43:31):

Make sure you get your bones checked because of the side effects caused not just the bones but your gut health, which affects how your body can absorb these nutrients. That's for osteoporosis. And I just wanna plug one time here, not a, not a plug, but because the most unique part of this whole eat protocol is the T part is the traction. We have to make sure we are addressing that and possibly using some form of traction similar to how braces are put on teeth to correct the structure. We have to put the spine in a position for a certain period of time, hold it there so the ligaments can reform. Alright? And we can use different towels, different techniques of the guy explain it in the spinal hygiene mini class that they'll have access to. Yes,

Speaker 1 (44:16):

There's so much to talk about it. I know we can't get it all in one show, but we will give them a link which will be in the show notes to share with everyone. And, and I do wanna reiterate, yes, Margie is great about osteoporosis. She's been on the show. So if you miss that episode, go back and listen. If you are a woman over 50, you absolutely should have a dual femur, dual hip DEXA scan to check for osteoporosis. And if you're at increased risk, 'cause you've been on medications like chronic prednisone, there's a whole list of medications that will increase your risk, family history, et cetera, then you wanna get a bone density. So thank you Dr. Ryan for joining us for this essential information to highlight things that we need to be aware of so that we can have great vitality and have an increase in our vitality span, not just our longevity, but how vital and alive we are in those extra years that we're gonna live. Because we do all the things and tell everyone about the spinal hygiene mini class that you have for them. We'll have the link in the show notes and where they can connect with you online.

Speaker 3 (45:20):

Yeah, I mean the spinal hygiene mini class, it's a simple one pager that shows you like what are the like four simple steps you can do to hydrate your body and spine to exercise at which we, we went over here how to, I went into more like how to adjust your lifestyle and went into examples of how to do that and then also the traction part of it, how to use towels, how to use household house, things they have around the house to use your advantage to help correct and support your spine. And then you can always go to dr wolfer.com, D-R-W-O-H-L-F as in Frank, ER t.com and that's where you can find me.

Speaker 1 (46:05):

Awesome. Well, I hope everyone will check Dr. Ryan in those places. Download the guide, add spinal hygiene to some other habit that you're already doing. It just takes a few minutes and enjoys the benefits of improved spinal function, which means improved hormonal balance, improved overall health. Thank you so much for joining me today, Dr. Ryan.

Speaker 3 (46:28):

Thank you.

Speaker 1 (46:29):

And thank you for joining us for another episode of the Hormone Prescription. This really is essential information that I don't know, honestly. Is your doctor telling you to take care of your spinal hygiene? I don't think so. So <laugh>, you need to know about this, so I'm glad you're here. One last quote that Dr. Ryan shared with me before we started recording. I'll leave you with for when the one great scorer comes to Mark against your name. He writes, not that you won or lost, but how you played the game. That's from Grant Lynn Rice. So how will you play the game with the information that you get? What do you do with it? Do you want to know and keep it moving? Or do you go, nice to know. I'm gonna see how I can implement this in my life. I look forward to hearing what you do with this information on social media. So reach out to me on Instagram or Facebook at Kyrin Dunston md. Hope you have a great week. I'll see you again next week. Until then, peace, love, and hormones y'all. Thank you so much for

Speaker 2 (47:28):

Listening. I know that incredible vitality occurs for women over 40 when we learn to speak hormones and balance these vital regulators to create the health and the life that we deserve. If you're enjoying this podcast, I'd love it if you'd give me a review and subscribe. It really does help this podcast out so much. You can visit the hormone prescription.com where we have some free gifts for you, and you can sign up to have a hormone evaluation with me on the podcast to gain clarity into your personal situation. Until next time, remember, take small steps each day to balance your hormones and watch the wonderful changes in your health that begin to unfold for you. Talk to you soon.

 

► Get Dr. Ryan Wohlfert's 1-Page Spinal Hygiene MiniClass: Learn Simple Solutions to Hydrate, Move & Support Your Spine, Maintain Healthy Postures, and Live a Pain-Free, Active Life:

CLICK HERE https://drwohlfert.com/spinalhygiene/

 

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Dr. Kyrin Dunston | LAVA-What Self-Love Really Means And Looks Like In 2024

In this enlightening episode of The Hormone Prescription Podcast, Dr. Kyrin Dunston opens a heartfelt discussion about understanding and embodying self-love in the year 2024.

If you're a midlife woman navigating the often tumultuous waves of hormonal change, sit back and tune in to a conversation that dives into the essence of caring deeply for oneself. It's more than skin-deep - it's a five-sensory journey towards being symptom free and realizing your full potential.

Main Topics Discussed:

• Vision of Being Symptom Free: Dr. Kyrin encourages us to craft a vivid, multi-sensory vision of wellness. Imagine a life where every day sings with vitality.
• Finding Your 'Why': It isn't just about wanting to improve certain aspects of our health; it's about digging deep and finding the real reasons driving our pursuit of well-being.
• Navigating Relationships: Learn how intimate connections factor into self-love, and why nourishing these relationships - especially with ourselves - is crucial.
• Harnessing Universal Forces: This episode reveals how to tap into the universal force for miraculous results, guiding listeners from hormonal poverty to prosperity.
• Decision as the First Step: Drawing inspiration from JP Morgan's wise words, Dr. Kyrin explores the power of decision-making in initiating transformation.

In an extraordinary moment, a listener shares her personal story in a mini coaching session with Dr. Kyrin - a testament to the power of vulnerability and clarity in the journey towards true self-love and hormonal balance.

Remember, the choice to improve your life is in your hands, and as JP Morgan stated, "The first step to getting somewhere is to decide you're not going to stay where you are." Make that bold decision today!

🎧 Listen to the full episode for a deeper dive into self-love and what it truly means to live a fulfilled life in the heart of midlife. Discover how to chart your course out of midlife metabolic mayhem and step into a world where hormone prosperity is your new normal.

"Don't linger in the shadows of hormonal confusion. Let's illuminate the path to a vibrant, symptom-free life together. Your journey to hormone bliss awaits!"

 

Speaker 1 (00:00):

There's a force in the universe, which if we permit it will flow through us and produce miraculous results. Mahatma Gandhi, find out how to produce miraculous results with your hormones and your health in your life. Now stay tuned.

Speaker 2 (00:16):

So the big question is, how do women over 40 like us keep weight off, have great energy, balance our hormones and our moods, feel sexy and confident, and master midlife? If you're like most of us, you are not getting the answers you need and remain confused and pretty hopeless to ever feel like yourself Again. As an O-B-G-Y-N, I had to discover for myself the truth about what creates a rock solid metabolism, lasting weight loss, and supercharged energy after 40, in order to lose a hundred pounds and fix my fatigue. Now I'm on a mission. This podcast is designed to share the natural tools you need for impactful results and to give you clarity on the answers to your midlife metabolism challenges. Join me for tangible, natural strategies to crush the hormone imbalances you are facing and help you get unstuck from the sidelines of life. My name is Dr. Kyrin Dunston. Welcome to the Hormone Prescription Podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:10):

Hi everybody. Welcome back to another episode of The Hormone Prescription. Thank you so much for joining me today as we talk about how to produce miraculous results in your life with your hormones and your health so that you can get on with the business of living and live joyfully and produce miraculous results in your life. In the last episode, I started with the teaser with a quote from JP Morgan about the first step to getting somewhere is to decide you're not going to stay where you are. And then I totally forgot that that's what I started with and never came back to that we started about talking about shrinking the size of your butt if you wanna reach your goals. So I'm gonna revisit this quote from JP Morgan because if you take no action and you don't change anything, guess what? Nothing changes. And in this solo series I've been talking about how do you change and go from hormonal poverty and the symptoms of midlife metabolic mayhem to hormonal prosperity, getting into your genes off the couch and back into life?

Speaker 1 (02:14):

Because if you're, listen, listening to my show on a regular basis, I'm guessing that you're struggling with some aspect of your health and that you think or know it's related to your hormones, your midlife metabolism, and that you're tired of being sick and tired of that. You want something different and better for your life. I don't know, just, just an inkling that that's why you're here and you're hoping you're gonna learn something that you can use. Maybe you're searching Dr. Google, you're listening to my pod podcast, lots of other podcasts, reading blogs, and you're trying to find answers. You know, I was talking with the women in my Hormone bliss challenge last night during our live class on Zoom about where did we women get this idea that we have to fix our health problems ourself, because it's kind of insane. I mean, I know we're in this age of information, right?

Speaker 1 (03:06):

That's the age we're in. We can have a million Google hits on our question. Like when I got back from my 18 months of travel, I went to pick my car up from storage and it was filled with water. And what was the first thing I did was I googled my make and model. Why is my car filled with water <laugh>? Because I'm like, I have to figure this out myself. So I think because we're in the age of information and you can figure so many things out for yourself, that we've really now been trained that we go to Google first before or whatever your browser tool is to search for the answer. And there are lots of things we can solve for ourselves. Like I Googled this morning, why is my Gmail running slow <laugh>, right? So I get answers and then I can fix it.

Speaker 1 (03:58):

And then I immediately found it on YouTube telling me why my make and model of car might have water in it. And I also immediately knew I cannot do this myself. I need an expert. And so I found an expert local mechanic and took it to him and he looked at it and fixed it and addressed it. But why, when it comes to our our health, do we women have this idea that we need to fix it ourselves? And so the women in the challenge, what started me on this, on their homework, I was reviewing and they were detailing all the hours, time, money, energy, the, and attention they had spent on trying to fix their health problems themselves. And so we had got into this really rich discussion about why do we think that? And it was really around because there's so much information out there because a lot of health coaches put them cells out as hormone experts.

Speaker 1 (04:49):

So the, the number, sheer number of experts sharing information on the quote unquote experts sharing information on the internet is huge. And there's so much information and a lot of people make it sound like, oh yeah, you can do this yourself and or I can help you. And you don't need someone with those credentials that might be more expensive, more time consuming, more costly. And the consequence is that these women, after years and years of trying feel frustrated, disillusioned, hopeless, maybe you can identify because they haven't gotten the results 'cause they've been trying to fix it themselves or with the help of people who really weren't qualified. So yes, this quote, the first step of get to getting somewhere is to decide you're not gonna stay where you are. I decided I wasn't gonna stay with a car filled with water. I knew I wasn't the one to fix it.

Speaker 1 (05:38):

So I took it to a mechanic and they fixed it. You've got to decide you were sick and tired of being sick and tired of being sick and tired of being sick and tired. And that you're going to take the steps. And if you want the results that you are seeking, you need to find a qualified expert who can help you, who has a proven track record of being able to fix the problem that you have and not discount yourself and your value and your worth, and go to people who really can't help you. And then you get to this quote that I shared with you at the beginning of this episode. There is a force in the universe which if we permit it will flow through us and produce miraculous results. That is from the Hot Ma Gandhi. And there really is. So in in the hormonal challenge that we're going through now with some beautiful women experiencing some beautiful results and insights, I talk about the fact that everything is created twice.

Speaker 1 (06:32):

And maybe you've never thought about that. Have you ever thought about the fact that everything is created twice? When I say that to people initially, they usually say, what do you mean? So let's see, my cell phone is sitting in front of me, I'm picking it up on the counter. Somebody had to come up with a concept of a cell phone right Back when we only had rotary phones. You remember those rotary phones? Remember <laugh>? And then we got the push button phones. So we had the rotary phones in our house. The only place you could talk on the phone was in your house. And if you're lucky, maybe you had two phones, right? So in my house, we had one in the kitchen, and then later on my mother got one in her room. So two phones, I couldn't walk in the park and talk on the phone.

Speaker 1 (07:14):

I certainly couldn't answer my email. There was no email at that time from the park, right? Somebody had to come up with this concept and believe that it was possible to make it and then design it and get all the people in line to create it. And now look, our whole world is transformed because we basically have a personal computer in our pocket that has the processing capacity. I remember when I was in high school, I went to a specialized science high school. I was selected to do a computer programming course at NYU. And so I actually got to take a computer, computer programming course when I was in high school, the computers that we worked with were as big as an entire room, probably 40 by 60 feet, y'all. It was huge. And we had to to program on these punch cards that we would punch these little divots and cards kind of like some voter cards are.

Speaker 1 (08:08):

And then we would have to stack them all up and put them in a processor in the computer that would select these cards sequentially and integrate them into the system. I mean, it was insane what we had to go through. And now the phone that I carry around in my pocket has processing capacity that far exceeds that. That huge ginormous computer. Somebody had to come up with this. And think of it, everything is created twice your health. Likewise, everything in nature is created twice. So first, all the plants and animals that you see were created in the mind of whatever your belief system is, God, nature, the universe, some power greater than me is all I know thought this up and created it. Your health is created the same way. So you have to have a vision for what your health is going to look like.

Speaker 1 (08:58):

And that's something I have everyone do in all my programs. A vision of being symptom free. What does it look like? What do you experience every day? What do you hear people saying to you about you? What do you smell? What do you hear? What do you see? What do you feel? So it has to be five sensory, and that's what informs that force in the universe that if we permit it will flow through us to produce miraculous results. But more than anything, we've gotta have a why. And so that's another thing I was really going into detail about yesterday. It's not necessarily knowing what you want for your health, because if you stop any woman in the street and you ask her, what do you want to change for your health? She can tell you, I wanna lose 30 pounds. I'd like my vision to be better so I don't have to use reading glasses.

Speaker 1 (09:47):

I'd like a better sex drive because I'd like to be more intimate and connected to my partner. I'd like my hair to start growing thicker because I'm losing hair and it's thinning. She can run that down. Is she gonna accomplish that goal? No. Why? Because what really matters is why she wants the things she wants. That's what determines what we will succeed with in our lives of any goals that we have. Because you asked that woman that she just told you and she walks, continues walking down the street going about her day. Is she gonna accomplish those goals? No, because they have no meaning. And we haven't gotten to the why she wants it. Now, if you tell her why, which is what I find with a lot of women, if you ask them, why do you want that? And they just tell you, oh, 'cause I'd like to fit in my jeans.

Speaker 1 (10:35):

Oh, because I just, you know, felt better when I had better sex and energy. That's not really getting to the why. So that's what we were talking about last night. And one woman volunteered to kind of do a little mini coaching on the spot with me. She was agreed to be very vulnerable, which I appreciate. And we really dug deep into why is it important for her to have a better sex drive? And when she knew she got to the why is when we got to the tiers, that's when you know you've gotten to your why, because she and her partner are kind of living as roommates, disconnected, not being seen, not being heard, not being connected, not having that connection, that healthy sexual intimacy affords you in a relationship that they used to have. And she got into an intimate relationship because she wanted that high level of being seen, being truly seen, being truly known, being truly connected and witnessed in this lifetime.

Speaker 1 (11:33):

And she said, he'll never leave me. I know that, but I don't wanna live an unfulfilled relationship in my life and not experience what's truly possible for me. And I know that healthy sexual intimacy is part of that. And she started crying because she got in touch with the fact that if she doesn't do something, she might never experience what's possible for her and her relationship that's getting to your why. So in order to harness the force in the universe that will flow through you and produce miraculous results, get you from hormonal poverty and out of midlife metabolic mayhem into hormonal prosperity, you've gotta get really honest with yourself. Not only about the what you want, but why you want it without it. Like I shared with you that Dr. Carrie Jones said, if you wanna reach your goals, you must shrink the size of your butt.

Speaker 1 (12:23):

Your butt will be so big and you'll have so many reasons why you can't. I don't know the time, I don't know the money, I don't know the bandwidth, it doesn't matter. I'll deal with it later. My partner really doesn't care 'cause they're not talking about it. All the things. And I'm talking about all the symptoms of midlife, metabolic mayhem, 60 plus symptoms. You know what I'm talking about? Overweight, tired, hair loss, digestive issues, mood problems, memory problems, skin problems, headaches, migraines. You know the list. You're not going to get out of it. Don't be like the doctor friend of mine who was a general surgeon at the hospital when I practiced regular OB, GYN, who I used to see all the time. And then when I stopped going to the hospital, 'cause I started really helping women get healthy and stay away from the hospital.

Speaker 1 (13:12):

I didn't see her for years. And then the health food store would I regularly frequented to get supplements and healthy food and interact with people. I one day saw her in there after years and I said, what are you doing here? I've never seen you in here. She said, oh, I was diagnosed with colon cancer and I had a colectomy and I'm undergoing, I can't remember if it was chemo, radiation or both. And now I'm here looking for supplements that can help me. Don't be like her. I thought it was so sad. I, I of course you know, said, I'm so sorry that you're having to deal with that and I'm glad that you're here. But my thought after leaving and seeing her was, what if she had been in this health food store 20 years ago, 10 years ago, five years ago, looking for things about how she could balance her hormones and lead to optimal health and wellbeing and hormone balance and hormone prosperity so that she could prevent things like cancers that one and two of us will get in our lifetime.

Speaker 1 (14:06):

But the data's clear that we have a reduced risk risk if we're in hormonal prosperity of getting cancer. What if she had taken the time, money, energy to take care of this and been proactive earlier because I know she was having symptoms 'cause she used to share with me that she was tired and not feeling like herself and I could see that she was overweight. What if she had taken care of it? Then maybe she wouldn't have had to have colon cancer. I don't know. I don't want that to be you. I don't want that to be you. So I really would love you to take the hormone poverty quiz. If you haven't already done that, join me for the Hormone Bliss Challenge so you can learn the steps that you need to take to get from hormonal poverty to hormone prosperity so that you can reverse the symptoms of midlife metabolic mayhem and enjoy your life and feel great and produce miraculous results.

Speaker 1 (14:59):

The first step to getting somewhere is to decide you're not going to stay where you are. JP Morgan said it, and it's the truth. No decision, no results. Decision comes from the root de sre, which is Latin to cut away from. To make a decision means you take a stand for your life and you cut away from all other possibilities and you say, I'm gonna do whatever it takes to get out of hormonal poverty and get to hormonal prosperity. You make a decision de re and you cut away from all other possibilities and then you go in the direction of your dreams. And there's another quote about when you take steps in the direction of your dreams that the universe conspires to make them happen. So I hope you will harness the power of that. You can do that in many ways. I will help you.

Speaker 1 (15:49):

I'm here for you. You can join our Hormone Bliss challenge the next time it launches. Go to Hormone Bliss Challenge and get on the waiting list so you'll be the first to be notified when it opens again in this month of self-love, we have a 20% joiners fee going on, 20% off the joiners fee going on for her hormone club. You'll hear the coupon code in one of the ads running during the podcast. Go to her hormone club.com and use that coping coupon code, coupon code to join as a member and get a prescription for bioidentical hormones throughout the US from the comfort of your own home and have hormones mailed to you. Our board certified doctors who are specialists in bioidentical hormones will consult with you, do the testing and get you the prescription that you need to get out out of hormonal poverty.

Speaker 1 (16:39):

So the question to you is, are you gonna make 2024 the year that you take a stand for yourself and you take action? Or are you gonna make this another year that you don't pay attention to yourself? The choice is up to you. I can offer the tools, but it's up to you if you wanna pick them up and use them to transform your life. I'd be happy to. I hope you will join me and hope you've enjoyed this episode and you've been inspired to take action. 'cause That's what it was all about. Until next week and next episode, peace, love, and Hormones,

Speaker 2 (17:14):

Y'all. Thank you so much for listening. I know that incredible vitality occurs for women over 40 when we learn to speak hormone and balance these vital regulators to create the health and the life that we deserve. If you're enjoying this podcast, I'd love it if you give me a review and subscribe. It really does help this podcast out so much. You can visit the hormone prescription.com where we have some free gifts for you, and you can sign up to have a hormone evaluation with me on the podcast to gain clarity into your personal situation. Until next time, remember, take small steps each day to balance your hormones and watch the wonderful changes in your health that begin to unfold for you. Talk to you soon.

 

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Dr. Kyrin Dunston | How To Get To Hormonal Prosperity And Bliss

Welcome to "The Hormone Prescription Podcast," where we navigate the tumultuous waves of midlife with grace, humor, and a lot of knowledge. In this episode, "How To Get To Hormonal Prosperity And Bliss," our host, Dr. Kyrin Dunston, takes us on an insightful journey out of hormonal poverty and into a realm of wellbeing and joy.

🌟 Key Takeaways:

• 2 million women a year in the United States enter menopause, joining the 50 million already experiencing it. This isn't a niche; it's a significant portion of our population that's often overlooked by mainstream medicine.
• Personal Journey of Transformation: Dr. Kyrin shares her compelling transformation from weighing 243 pounds and battling numerous health issues, to discovering a new path of health and vitality. This personal revolution fuels her dedication to helping women navigate menopause with more support and less suffering.
• Listen to the Whispers: Through touching stories and eye-opening insights, Dr. Kyrin emphasizes the importance of paying attention to our bodies' subtle signals before they turn into insurmountable health problems.
• Hormone Bliss Challenge: Dr. Kyrin discusses the ongoing Hormone Bliss challenge, a space where women share their vulnerabilities and learn to transition from enduring to thriving. Their stories resonate with a powerful message: You're not alone.

📚 Episode Highlights:

• The Underserved Majority: Dr. Dunston sheds light on the vast number of women in menopause who are navigating this stage with insufficient guidance from the healthcare system they trust.
• A Turning Point: Reflecting on her health crisis, Dr. Kyrin underlines the moment of realization that led her to seek and advocate for better solutions, embodying Maya Angelou's philosophy, "When you know better, you do better."
• The Power of Vulnerability: By sharing honest stories from participants in the Hormone Bliss challenge, Dr. Kyrin reveals the hidden struggles many women face, masked by a smile and a "put-together" appearance.

💡 Inspirational Insights:

• Don't Wait for the Boulder: Dr. Kyrin wisely notes that waiting for a severe diagnosis to take action is like waiting for a boulder to hit you. Heeding the "whispers" early on can prevent much suffering and lead to a more fulfilling life.
• Mistakes as Lessons: Highlighting the importance of learning from past attempts at healing, Dr. Kyrin encourages listeners to view mistakes as stepping stones rather than stumbling blocks.

🌺 Join the Journey:

Are you ready to step into hormonal prosperity and bliss? Whether you're tiptoeing in hesitancy or ready to leap into action, this episode serves as a lighthouse, guiding you to safer shores where your well-being is the priority.

Don't continue to silently suffer or navigate this alone. Dr. Kyrin Dunston's expertise and compassionate approach offer a beacon of hope and practical steps forward.

Dive into this episode filled with not just expert advice but heartwarming empathy and actionable strategies that could change the trajectory of your health journey. Say yes to the vibrant life awaiting you beyond hormonal poverty.

 

Speaker 1 (00:00):

The first step to getting somewhere is to decide you're not going to stay where you are. JP Morgan, find out how to get out of hormonal poverty and midlife metabolic mayhem by getting to hormone bliss in this episode. Up next.

Speaker 2 (00:16):

So the big question is, how do women over 40 like us keep weight off, have great energy, balance our hormones and our moods, feel sexy and confident, and master midlife? If you're like most of us, you are not getting the answers you need and remain confused and pretty hopeless to ever feel like yourself again. As an O-B-G-Y-N, I had to discover for myself the truth about what creates a rock solid metabolism, lasting weight loss, and supercharged energy after 40, in order to lose a hundred pounds and fix my fatigue. Now I'm on a mission. This podcast is designed to share the natural tools you need for impactful results and to give you clarity on the answers to your midlife metabolism challenges. Join me for tangible, natural strategies to crush the hormone imbalances you are facing and help you get unstuck from the sidelines of life. My name is Dr. Kyrin Dunston. Welcome to the Hormone Prescription Podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:10):

Hi everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Hormone Prescription. Thank you so much for joining me as we dive more into healing, hormonal poverty, healing, midlife metabolic mayhem, and getting to hormonal prosperity so that you can get back into your genes off the couch and back into life. Do you wanna do that? Yeah, sounds good. I know you do. So that's why I am recording this second episode in this series of three solo episodes for you. I know I usually have a guess, but I thought we would switch it up a little. 'cause I know many of you have reached out. You're looking for help and guidance. So I wanted to kind of give you the concrete, concrete steps you need to take to get out of hormonal poverty. Not sure if that's you. Definitely take my hor poverty quiz. We'll have a link in the show notes so you can kind of get an idea.

Speaker 1 (02:02):

Hmm, am I in a, could I be in hormonal poverty? Could that be the cause of my symptoms of midlife metabolic mayhem? For those of you who aren't familiar with that, that's the 60 or plus symptoms that you can have from hormonal poverty. And hormonal poverty doesn't just mean menopause, it can start in perimenopause. It can be in your twenties and your thirties. You can have it at any age, but just like financial poverty is when you don't have the financial resources to meet your living needs. Hormonal poverty is when you don't have the hormonal resources to meet your body's needs because every cell, every system in the body depends on your hormones, your seven main metabolic hormones to function properly. So yes, it's your female hormones, estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone, but also your other metabolic drivers, insulin, thyroid, cortisol, and DHEA. Those are the seven hormones we're talking about.

Speaker 1 (02:55):

So last time I talked to you about really what is the problem, so I just wanna rephrase that. We talked about the planned obsolescence of your ovaries starting at age 35 where you're only born with so many eggs and it's your eggs that mainly make your main female hormones, estrogen, progesterone, and half of your testosterone. And you start getting a lower number of eggs. And these eggs in your ovaries are not very high functioning by the time you reach 35. Yep, 35. And it's kind of downhill from there until most women, average age of 51, have no more eggs. And that's called menopause. So that means hormonal production of estrogen, progesterone, and half of your testosterone ceases at that age. So most women in menopause are definitely in hormonal poverty, but it usually starts around the age of 35 if not sooner. So this affects most of us and if we live long enough, it will affect all of us.

Speaker 1 (03:58):

2 million women a year in the United States go into menopause and we have 50 million women in menopause currently in the United States. So we're not talking about a small number of people and we're really underserved by the mainstream medical establishment because of the training and the way it's developed that I participated in for several decades until I knew better. And like Maya Angelou says, when you know better, you do better. So now I know better, so I do better, but I know you're not getting the answers that you want and need in your regular doctor's office. It's not their fault. They're good people and they care. They're just doing what they were trained to do. Like I used to do that. I was trained, but then when my own health suffered and I weighed 243 pounds and had myriad health problems like chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia and hair loss, no sex drive, gastritis, depression, anxiety, then I found a new path.

Speaker 1 (04:55):

And that's what I work with women on because I pledge to spend the rest of my life teaching other women about this and guiding them towards health and wholeness if it worked. And I used it and it worked for sure. And that was almost 15 years ago. Now we talked, we had some quotes from some of my podcasts, former podcast guests. I love this one from Jen Simmons. There is no greater perspective than when you lose your health, right? But should we really need to have a bolder drop into our lives and get a cancer diagnosis or an autoimmune diagnosis in order to stop and pay attention and take care of our health? I really hope not. Why? If we listen to the whispers, we don't have to get boulders. 'cause I find that the universe will, when you don't listen to the whispers, will just up its ante and start throwing pebbles, then rocks and then you'll get a bolt dropped into your life.

Speaker 1 (05:47):

And that's the cancer diagnosis or the autoimmune diagnosis or the dementia diagnosis that you really never wanted. So better to pay attention now and do something about it. So what are the steps you need to take to get to hormonal prosperity and bliss? Well, I invited some of you, well all of you actually who are on my email list to join me for the Hormone Bliss challenge that is currently ongoing. We've got a bunch of women in there who are really suffering. I was reading through their worksheet ex homework exercises last night and it really touched my heart to see when people get a private audience with me, how honest and open and vulnerable they are about what they're really dealing with. I know you put lipstick on and you comb your hair and you put a smile on your face and you go out every day and you put your bests face forward and you're trying to show and look like you're really doing okay.

Speaker 1 (06:43):

But I also know that you're suffering inside. Maybe some of you don't even realize how much you're suffering because it happens so slowly over such a long period of time that you don't even realize the things that are wrong that you're not paying attention to anymore. Or the degree to which they're wrong. So you know, how do you boil a frog in hot water? You just turn the heat up slowly and that it doesn't even realize that it's getting boiled and it doesn't have time to jump out because it happened so slowly where if you tried to drop it into boiling water, it would jump out. So if, if I took you from when you were optimally healthy to where you are now and dropped you in there, you'd probably start screaming and go, I can't live this. Alright. But because it's happened so slowly over so many years or maybe even decades, you don't even really realize it.

Speaker 1 (07:33):

So reading the homework assignments, I really saw that the pain that people are in, the things that they've tried that haven't worked, how many doctors they've been to, how many programs they've tried, how all the programs you've tried, all the providers you've been to, all the supplements you've tried, testing you've done, it's exhausting, right? So much time and energy and money wasted and not really a lot of results. And some, a lot of them said in their homework that they wish they had gone to someone who actually had the credentials and experience to help 'em. They were just trying to save money by going to people who are less costly. And the results they got actually showed that these people didn't have the expertise to help them. And it really, it hurts my heart because it's just amazing sometimes that we don't value our health as our number one value and we don't spend our time, money, and attention there and then we suffer.

Speaker 1 (08:30):

And then usually when it's too late, then we are willing to stop and spend the time, attention, money, and invest in our health. So I really saw that in the homework and it wore my heart. So we got a lot of people in the hormone list challenge and a lot of them are gonna go on to our midlife metabolism rescue program and get that hands-on help. So that's what I wanted to talk to you about. What are those steps? I take you through those steps in the Hormone Bliss Challenge. This is the first one we've run in over a year and I'm not sure when the next one will be, but I certainly hope you will get on the waiting list. So you can be one of the first to know when we run it. Again, you can go to hormone bliss challenge.com and sign up for the waiting list.

Speaker 1 (09:14):

So you'll be the first to be notified because we do limit membership in that program when we do launch it. So I will teach you the actual steps that you need to go through in that program. A lot of people have significant change just in seven days with the transformative steps that I offer. And I love, I wanna share some quotes from some of my former podcast members. And this one is from Deb Matthew. Eventually people will learn that mistakes are meant for learning, not repeating from Dr. Deb Matthew in North Carolina. One of my good friends who does work similar to what I do. You can see her episode in the podcast, archives, mistakes Over Learning, not repeating. If you've tried something over and over again, you've tried changing your diet, you've tried eliminating gluten and that didn't help. You've tried an X supplement and that didn't help.

Speaker 1 (10:09):

And you've tried one-shot Wonders and you've tried working with So-called health coaches who didn't have the credentials or experience to help you. Don't repeat it. If it doesn't work, just stop. Right? Mistakes are meant for learning, not repeating. And she has this other quote that's a corollary to that you can't make the same mistake twice the second time. It's not a mistake, it's a choice. So, you know, one thing that's helped me in my life is asking myself, if I have repeated a so-called mistake, why did I make that choice to repeat that mistake? And I'm not perfect y'all. I make mistakes all the time, right? None of us is perfect, we're human. So we're living this human journey. And I do believe that it's all about learning how to be a better human, how to be a better us. I do believe we're each unique in the gifts and struggles that we are faced with in this lifetime.

Speaker 1 (11:03):

And I believe that our goal is to work through our struggles so that we can turn them into gifts so that we can show others the way. So I went to medical school to get the biggest toolbox so that I could help women with their health. And then when I got there, did I help a lot of women? Yes, I delivered a lot of babies. I did a lot of pap smears and helped a lot of women. But when my own health suffered and I saw that my patient's health was suffering at midlife and I saw, hmm, this isn't working right. Did I make a mistake going to medical school? No. Did I keep doing what I had been doing that wasn't helping me and helping my patients? No. I stopped and made another choice. And that choice was to find the answers and keep digging.

Speaker 1 (11:47):

And I found the answers of root cause resolution medicine. So I went and got trained and it transformed my health and then helped other women to transform their health. And so this is really the journey I've been on and I want to give a call to you to stop making choices, to make the same mistakes and make different choices for yourself so that you can get different outcomes. And it might start with doing the hormone boost challenge. It might start with reaching out 'cause you wanna consult with me, we're now doing that. Or maybe you, you're like, I know that I have sex hormone poverty or flex hormone poverty as I call it, and coined the phrase in my TEDx talk a couple years ago. And I wanna get out of hormonal poverty and I want a prescription for natural bioidentical medicines from the comfort of my own home via Zoom consulting with a physician and the hormones mailed to my inbox.

Speaker 1 (12:40):

So we're offering a sale that we've never offered before and won't offer again on her hormone club membership. 20% off, we've never done that. Won't do it again, but it's for this month of self-love. So if you know that's you and you're ready to get started, you can go to listen to the ads on this commercial that are running while the sale's running this month and go to her hormone club.com and use that coupon code to enter and join us and start working at least on your sex hormones in the Hormone Bliss Challenge. We help you not only with your sex hormones, but your other main metabolic drivers that I mentioned. So my other podcast guest, Dr. Carrie Jones, said, if you want to reach your goals, you must shrink the size of your butt. And that's not your BUTT in your jeans, that's your BUT.

Speaker 1 (13:34):

That means your excuses. And I know you've got every excuse why your health is not your, not your number one priority. I don't have the time. I don't know the money, I don't have the bandwidth. It's not that important. I'll take care of it when X happens, when I retire, when the kids leave and go to college, right? It's not that big an issue. My partner really doesn't care if we have sexual intimacy. They don't ever mention it anymore. If you're saying that to yourself, you're lying to yourself. So we've all got our butts. Some of our butts are bigger than others, pun intended. But you gotta shrink the size of your butt if you wanna reach your goals. So in order to get from hormonal prosperity and out of midlife metabolic mayhem and get to hormonal prosperity, get your genes off the couch and back into life, shrink the size of your butt.

Speaker 1 (14:24):

Join us for the challenge. Join us at our hormone club. Join us for one of my other many programs that are designed to transform your health, transform your life so that you can finally find the answers that you've been seeking. I look for you there and really enjoy working with you personally and helping you to transform your health in your life. Thank you so much for joining me in this show. I will see you next week for another one or maybe in a couple days 'cause I think I gotta be a week or two behind there with the podcast. So we're catching up and please reach out and join me 'cause you need help now, not later. And till next week, peace, love, and hormones y'all.

Speaker 2 (15:11):

Thank you so much for listening. I know that incredible vitality occurs for women over 40 when we learn to speak hormones and balance these vital regulators to create the health and the life that we deserve. If you're enjoying this podcast, I'd love it if you'd give me a review and subscribe. It really does help this podcast out so much. You can visit the hormone prescription.com where we have some free gifts for you, and you can sign up to have a hormone evaluation with me on the podcast to gain clarity into your personal situation. Until next time, remember, take small steps each day to balance your hormones and watch the wonderful changes in your health that begin to unfold for you. Talk to you soon.

 

► Are you tired of feeling like you're losing control at midlife? Weight gain, low energy, and a decrease in sex drive are all too common. But it doesn't have to be that way.

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Imagine waking up with more energy than ever before. Feeling confident and sexy in your own body. No more mood swings or uncontrollable weight gain – just pure blissful balance throughout menopause.

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CLICK HERE to sign up NOW!

 

► Feeling tired? Can't seem to lose weight, no matter how hard you try?

It might be time to check your hormones.

Most people don’t even know that their hormones could be the culprit behind their problems. But at Her Hormone Club, we specialize in hormone testing and treatment. We can help you figure out what’s going on with your hormones and get you back on track.

We offer advanced hormone testing and treatment from Board Certified Practitioners, so you can feel confident that you're getting the best possible care. Plus, our convenient online consultation process makes it easy to get started.

Try Her Hormone Club for 30 days and see how it can help you feel better than before. CLICK HERE.

---

Remember, "The first step to getting somewhere is to decide you're not going to stay where you are." Your journey to hormonal prosperity and bliss begins with this empowering episode.

 

Dr. Elliot Justin | Why Your Partner’s ED Is Essential To Address And How

Is your relationship navigating the choppy waters of midlife? Then you are not alone. In this week's deep dive on "The Hormone Prescription Podcast," we unpack the conversations you need to have but might be dreading. This episode, we tackle erectile dysfunction (ED) head-on with the formidable Dr. Elliot Justin. Let's not skirt around the issue—the man in your life's ED affects both of you deeply. It's essential to address it not just for his well-being, but for yours and your relationship's health.

Dr. Justin strides into the studio with an awe-inspiring list of credentials: urologist, innovative thinker, and couples' counselor extraordinaire, renowned for bringing new perspectives to midlife challenges. Today, he shares the collective wisdom garnered from years at the forefront of men's health and intimate relationships.

Midlife can feel like a carnival of changes and curveballs. But when the elephant in the room is ED, that jovial atmosphere quickly transforms into a solo tightrope walk. Dr. Justin encourages us to transform this walk into a joint tightrope act, one that strengthens your bond and navigates the complexities of progesterone to performance.

About Dr. Elliot Justin:

ELLIOT JUSTIN, MD, FACEP, is the CEO and Founder of FirmTech, the first sex tech company dedicated to improving men’s erectile fitness. He has a background in Emergency Medicine and healthcare technology consulting. Dr. Justin is also a serial healthcare entrepreneur, having founded and sold Pegasus Emergency Group and Swift MD. He has provided guidance to various services, telemedicine, and tech startups. Dr. Justin pursued Slavic Studies at Harvard University and studied medicine at Boston University. Happily married for 35 years, and father of three children, Elliot and Ann live in Montana with three energetic mares and a flock of chickens

So, what can you expect to uncover in this eye-opening chat?

• Insights You Can’t Afford to Ignore: Understand just how much ED can influence your daily life, and how to navigate these changes with grace.
• The Expert’s Plan for Partnership: Dr. Justin’s wealth of knowledge and experience is distilled into practical strategies to face the ED challenge as a team.
• Innovative Approaches to Speak Up and Heal: Discover modern ways to approach ED—no more outdated stigmas, only up-to-date solutions.
• Communication is Key to Connection: Learn the importance of open and honest conversation, and some powerful dialogue strategies for building bridges.
• Success Stories that Give Hope: Real-life experiences and victories will inspire you on your own journey through midlife.

This episode bears all, from tender anecdotes to strategic wisdom, and catapults us into a space where ED isn't just a problem to overcome, but a journey to undertake together.

So gather your wits and your earbuds—this one’s going to shake up the midlife conversation in all the best ways. Tune into "The Hormone Prescription Podcast" now. And remember, don't just listen—subscribe, review, and transform the narrative of midlife with us.

 

Speaker 1 (00:00):

“What goes up does not have to come down until you're ready.” Dr. Elliot. Justin, stay tuned to find out why your partner's ED is essential to address and how.

Speaker 2 (00:12):

So the big question is, how do women over 40 like us keep weight off, have great energy, balance our hormones in our moods, feel sexy and confident, and master midlife? If you're like most of us, you are not getting the answers you need and remain confused and pretty hopeless to ever feel like yourself again. As an O-B-G-Y-N, I had to discover for myself the truth about what creates a rock solid metabolism, lasting weight loss, and supercharged energy after 40, in order to lose a hundred pounds and fix my fatigue. Now I'm on a mission. This podcast is designed to share the natural tools you need for impactful results and to give you clarity on the answers to your midlife metabolism challenges. Join me for tangible, natural strategies to crush the hormone imbalances you are facing and help you get unstuck from the sidelines of life. My name is Dr. Kyrin Dunston. Welcome to the Hormone Prescription Podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:05):

Hi everybody. Welcome back to another episode of The Hormone Prescription. Thank you so much for joining me today as we dive into the topic of erectile dysfunction for men. You know, it's kind of interesting that, you know, we women actually get erections of our clitoris. It's really a mini penis and most women aren't aware of that. And if you are not getting erections, that's something that needs to be addressed. I think we dive into this in this episode. In the interview we talk a little bit about this. He calls it something else for women, but for men and women, it really can be a sign of larger health issues, particularly related to your cardiac function, to your heart that can be lethal. So it's something you need to pay attention to. A lot of guys don't talk to their doctors about this issue because they're embarrassed and really, yeah, those days are over.

Speaker 1 (02:02):

You need to start talking to your doctors about your sex. You just do. It's imperative. Your sex is not separate from <laugh>. Your total function, your liver function, your hormone function, your brain function, your gastrointestinal digestive function, your heart cardiac function, your sex is an essential part of your body, of who you are, how you function, your vitality. We get into that in this episode. Dr. Justin is on the same page with me. So if your doctor is ignoring your sexuality and not talking to you about it, it's time that you brought it up and demand to have it addressed and also for your partner. But I know that we women sometimes play that role for the men in our lives to be the one to help them get over themselves and talk about this with their doctor. So we're gonna talk about how to do that in this episode and more.

Speaker 1 (02:57):

Dr. Justin is not only a physician who's treated many, many patients, but he's a researcher, he's a developer, and he, like me, is always thinking about how we can serve people better? How can we help them live healthier, happier, longer lives? So I think you're gonna love Dr. Justin as much as I love talking to him. Just note, this is an explicit interview. So we do say some words that you might not want your kiddos to hear. So if you don't want them to hear it, you might wanna switch to a different episode and listen to this when you are in privacy. Just a note and I'll tell you a little about Dr. Justin. Then we'll get started. So, Dr. Elliot, Justin is a medical doctor fellow and CEO of the founder of Firm Tech. It's the first sex tech company dedicated to improving men's erectile fist fitness. Most sex companies are just sex toy companies, but this is a tech company to improve erectile fitness. He has a background in emergency med and healthcare technology consulting, and he is a serial healthcare entrepreneur, like I said, always developing things to help people live better lives. And he founded and sold multiple companies and provided guidance to various services. And he's just an all around badass who loves helping people. So I think you're gonna enjoy this episode. Without further ado, please help me welcome Dr. Elliot Justin to the show.

Speaker 3 (04:31):

Thanks. I welcome the opportunity to speak.

Speaker 1 (04:32):

Yeah. I'm really excited to have you on because you and I both know that men are not talking to their doctors about their erectile difficulties, their sexual difficulties, or low libido, all the problems they're having in the bedroom. We know that they, there are women, female partners are aware, and therefore we're really the ones that need the information. So if you're a woman listening, listen up, because really, I always say that erectile dysfunction could save a man's life, and we're gonna talk about that and you're probably scratching your head going, how could that save a man's life? But I wanna start by, I could explain that, know you have a background. Yeah, we'll get to that. You have a background in emergency medicine and healthcare technology. So what got you interested in diving deeper into the subject of men's sexuality and erectile dysfunction and men's sexual health?

Speaker 3 (05:34):

Well, my background, I'm an emergency medicine physician, and since 2015, my, I've been doing medical technology. That's how I got to this as an emergency medicine doctor, I can assure you that's short of a heart attack or a stroke. There are a few emergencies I could concern a man as much as a lip dick. So this is something that's of, of, you know, of vital importance to men, both their self-esteem and their health. I got involved in this. I was actually working on a very complicated catheter to regulate blood pressure after a stroke. A urologist heard what I was doing and said, I see you've done some research with neuromodulation of erectile function, which I had a neuromodulation for. We mean placing electrodes by a nerve and nerves. The paradigm for that is cardiac pacemaker that controls your heart, your heart, even have to even after you're dead.

Speaker 3 (06:17):

My thought was if we can control sexuality, the impact on, on, on an aging population would be enormous. I will say that project failed. I tried to neuromodulation the cous nerve, which everyone's favorite nerve no has heard about. Suppose the nerve that's responsible produce orgasms in men or women. We try it out on, on some, on some sheep. And actually, and on myself. We, we to no effect. I actually don't think that we know how orgasms are produced. It's very complicated. Well, oddly, even more complicated than, than the heart. So this urologist came to me about in 2015 and said, I wanna count the number nocturnal erection, not two, excuse me, came me three years ago, 2020, and said, I wanna count the number of nocturnal erections that are leading indicator of mass cardiovascular health. And I said, really? I know, I know anything about it.

Speaker 3 (07:03):

I, you know, I mean, everyone knows about morning wood. We poke up partners where it, we made, we laugh about it. But a healthy man has three to five nocturnal erections per night. And if that number goes down, it's a sign of an impending heart attack or stroke. So it's not just an association. Blood take, taking a blood high blood pressure is associated with stroke and heart attack. Declined number of nocturnal reactions is actually a leading indicator. It's predictive. So that I thought, gee, that could be enormous as an emergency medicine doctor. But a, that's another vital sign and a vital sign that would be much more compelling to men probably than any other than the other, other vital signs. And we live in this age of healthcare wearables for pretty much everything except for sex. And what do men, frankly, women care more about?

Speaker 3 (07:43):

How many steps they took yesterday or their calorie count or this or this or, or their sexual health. And that's, you know, that's a, that's a rhetoric, rhetoric question for most people. So the numbers are enormous, as you indicated earlier. I mean, 50% of men by age 50 have erectile dysfunction. It's even higher for women. And why is it higher for women? Because postmenopausal women lose their hormonal protection against heart disease. So postmenopausal women have all the same problems that men deal with. Diabetes, high blood pressure, atherosclerosis, auto attacks, et cetera. But premenopausal women take SSR antidepressants and they take hormones all which have, both of which have a significant impact upon their sexual performance as a health. So with d with data, we give people data. We can now transform the quality of, of, of, of health, of healthcare. We can transform how things are managed.

Speaker 3 (08:35):

'Cause There's a cliche, if you can track it, you can hack it. So right now, when it comes to sexual health, doctors just really just have opinions. If I go, I'm 70 years old. If I went to a urologist or a sexologist right now and said, I like where my, where my sexual health is right now. I can perform every day. My wife and I are happy, but I wanna keep it there. What can ha what can you tell me? Or I told him, you know, I'm having, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm struggling getting erections. They can wave an ultrasound over my, over my penis in the office, but I'm not getting aroused. I'm not finding out what I really wanna know, which is what's happening when I'm trying to, trying to perform. So if we can give people data, they can then measure the impact of diseases, medications, diet, self effects, all these claims that are made and see what works for them.

Speaker 1 (09:18):

Yeah. You know, you, you've made so many great points in that. I just wanna go back and highlight a couple of them. Sure. So number one is that most women don't realize that erectile dysfunction is a problem for women. Women, yes. We get erections, ladies, right? 'cause Our clitoris is a small penis and they do get erect with sexual arousal. And that we women just write off that we're not getting aroused. We don't have orgasms as, oh, it's only a pleasure problem. But it's not just like for men, like you said, it's a leading indicator for cardiac disease. It is a leading indicator for cardiac disease and hormonal poverty for you ladies. So I just wanna highlight that because I think that's essential. But now I wanna go back. So this is great. Okay. That you, you really saw that there was a need for this. And you probably recognize men aren't gonna go to the doctor for this. They're not gonna talk about it. And so you started looking at ways that they could actually measure this themselves, right?

Speaker 3 (10:22):

Correct. Well, the doctors are really ignorant about this. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I'll, I'll give you two examples in, I was approached by Dr. Hot Hotel and professor of urology at University of Utah to count the nerve nocturnal erections. And he wanted to embed sensors into a device like a condom ring that had six mm-Hmm. But it would have six times the elasticity of the condom ring. And I looked at this device and said, well, that's not gonna work because condom rings break. So have he been a urologist unaware of the fact that this piece of common technology is actually vulnerable to breaking also condom rings can rotate, which means, which means, means you have rotational artifact. And my thought to hit the response was, well, let's do better than that. Let's try to do more than just count the number in external erections. Let's try to figure out the health of all erections. So my thought was to embed sensors into an advanced form of an erection ring or cochran instead of colloquially known as this doctor, I've never used the cockran. Now I have yet to find, well, here's a joke we have at medical, at medical congresses. I'll ask you, how do you tell the difference between a straight doctor and a gay doctor? You ask one question, Rin,

Speaker 1 (11:27):

Have you used a coching? Is that the question? <Laugh>? That's

Speaker 3 (11:30):

The question you got. How have you used a coching? You got, and the answer is, and, and a straight doctor's like nine is like never. 'cause They just, whether it's male pride or I don't, you know, straight doctors treat rings like a Suman kryptonite. I don't need that. Gay doctors will be like, yeah, like last night you got a better one. So gay straight doctors aren't open to the really, what should be the, the first line of therapy for man who has dysfunction? Then you have, there's no, there's no sense from these doctors about what is, what is normal sexual behavior. The scoring systems that are used by urologists, by sexologists to evaluate men or women for that matter, are focused on penetrative sex. There's the shim score, the atom, the eye, you're probably familiar with these. They don't reflect what people are actually doing.

Speaker 3 (12:14):

Mo most se most, most sex between, between partners over the age of 40. Penetration is just a part of it. It's not the focus, it's not the endpoint. And these studies, like something out of the 1950s or 60, are focused on that as an endpoint. Then urologists think, okay, the first line of therapy is to give a PD five medication with Viagra, Ali, p and d, you know, the, the top ones. But those medications put more blood into the penis, but they don't keep it there. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> most men's problem is not getting it up. Most men's problem is losing an erection. That could happen for a whole variety of reasons from anxiety, diabetes, hypertension, alcohol, drugs. And then the most common one that urologists don't think about because all men get it, all women get it too, which is venous leak syndrome.

Speaker 3 (12:57):

Urologists are sure are surgery oriented. The pill doesn't work. They wanna put an implants into a penis or, or do some sort of surgical procedure. So venous leak syndrome is something that we can be born with. Very, very few men have it where you get blood, the penis, but it leaks out because the muscles that control the veins to hold the blood of the penis aren't, aren't very strong. Venous leak syndrome is something we all experience as we get older. I don't know how old you are. I'm 70. If I sit on a plane for five or six hours, my socks will start to pinch. My wedding band will, my finger will be hard, hard to take off my finger because I have venous link. 'cause As I get older, the, the muscles and my small veins don't pump blood back to my heart as effectively.

Speaker 3 (13:32):

It's the same thing for the penis. As we get older, our, our our, the smooth muscles weaken in our penis. We get an erection and we lose it. Now, that loss could be accelerated by anxiety or it can be the very cause of anxiety or, or caused by medications. Our research shows the big cocktails are SR antidepressants and anti antihypertensive and or in combination. But the solution is a plumbing solution. The P five medications put more blood in the penis. A properly used Cochran holds the blood in the penis, allowing a man to sustain erection for more, for a more satisfactory time period. Coing should be mainstreamed. I look at vibrators in my lifetime. My mother's vibrator was in a bottom dress drawer of a supply closet. Just thought we'd never find it. <Laugh>. We didn't know what it was.

Speaker 3 (14:15):

We found it. You know, I don't, my wife probably owns seven or eight. My daughter takes 'em on dates. They've been mainstreamed. It's no longer considered to be shameful for women to use a vibrator. Most women, I think in the latest report there were 60 women, 60 million women in the United States own more than one. What do men have? Well, they have these monstrous things called strokers. Like somebody could beat something to death with, they don't have anything, but, but they do have rings. But cochlea have been made the wrong way for many years. Can I, may I explain? Yeah. So I want to come up with a ring that could be worn overnight. Well, this cause I want to count data. I want to count these nocturnal erections. I also want to come up with a ring that could be worn comfortably during sex with sensors inside of it in order to record the duration of the firmness.

Speaker 3 (14:56):

Every erection. So we get baseline data on man's sexual health. But ings have been made for 150 years out of tight silicone rings. You have to have an erection before you put them on. 'cause They choke off the blood supply. It's like a NOIs on of penis. I mean, it's like some design by a hangman. I mean, so I thought, let's make coch rings out of a soft elastomer. So these are, I dunno if on camera right now, but these, these, our rings are unique. They're, they're made out of a, out of a soft elastomer. So they're comfortable with us. Silicone makes us adapt to them. I also wanted the ring to be safe, easy on, easy off. Many men are overweight. They, they, they can't, they can't even see their penis. Men who they're, they're anxious. These things need to be made very, very easy for them.

Speaker 3 (15:35):

I would suspect that about half the se heterosexual sex in the world starts when a man is scratching his wife's back. When she takes a bra off at night. Women don't like bras in their back because they're silicone in the back. It's itchy to the skin. I was looking at my wife's bra on the ground and I thought, oh, a hook. Women don't put on bras over their heads. A bras is a ring that opens and closes with a hook. Let's make an erection ring with a hook. So it's easy on, easy off. And then let's also design a ring. But that man can put on when he is flacid. So we can put on discreetly, put on hours before second. It could be worn for hours. So it doesn't block the arterial flow. It only constrains the return. And then let's also try to design a ring that will make a man's pleasure more intense.

Speaker 3 (16:19):

It's not a vibrator. The way we do that with a man is we draw out the. So we tested a ring on a group of men between the ages of 27 and 70. The goal is that if we put the right, we want to increase the ejaculatory phase by 50%. So with this ring, my ejaculatory phase goes from four seconds to seven seconds. That's a significantly more powerful orgasm. I think it's good as a vibrator, but it's, if it's for an instantly more powerful orgasm. But more importantly now, by putting sensors into it, we, we have a ring that's comfortably worn overnight to count nocturnal erections, which are leading the indicator mass. Cardiovascular health and wandering sex. The ring can measure the duration of firmness of erections. So now men can measure the impact of everything from medications, diseases, supplements, diets, relationships. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> on sexual performance and say what works, what doesn't work.

Speaker 1 (17:07):

So I wanna ask you, because you mentioned this before we started recording, and then we touched a little bit on it just then that vibrators are mainstream for women. I mean, there are all kinds you can get like, what did I see online? It was like a superhero shaped vibrator. And I mean, they got everything. So sex toys for women are really mainstream, but not for men unless they're gay men. Why do you think that is?

Speaker 3 (17:34):

Well, I think there's several reasons. I think women, one, represent a much larger market. Women do women make what? Like 80% of the purchases overall in the United States or, I, I I think that might, I think it might be worldwide women purchase. If you exclude condoms, women purchase the majority of the sex toys. So when people look at numbers in, in the sex toy area, they say, oh, well men buy more. Well, not, that's not that. Once you exclude condoms, then it's, you know, then it's women. I think women are more open-minded rep represent a larger market. I also think the vibrators have been so enormously successful. No one else has figured out something equivalent for, you know, for men. I think for gay men, it's different. They're really, really focused on, on sexual pleasure and much less inhibited. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And also anal sex requires a harder penis. It's harder to penetrate the anal sphincter than it is to penetrate a vagina. So a ring becomes, you know, it's almost a necessary tool.

Speaker 1 (18:28):

Okay. You, you made a comment though before we were recording. There's something about you, the way you said it was pretty comical because you said if a woman brings sex toys into the bedroom, so can you share that, that no problem. Yeah, sure. But if a man, then what happens? Yeah.

Speaker 3 (18:44):

When managers introduce sex toys, the industry surveys say they get used one or two times and then they get thrown out. If a woman introduces a sex toy, it, it gets used for as long and as often as she wants, wants it to be used. But, that also inhibits men from buying sex toys as well too, because they're not gonna get used. I also, I don't think any effort has really been made by the industry to make sex, make conquering sexy. But, but I, but the data shows this, this is a really important 'cause and there's, we, we've had an internal study to this effect. And there's gonna be big paper, two pi papers, spout rings at the American Neurology Association and Congress coming up, coming up in in May one is going, is going to show that if a man wants to have a longer lasting erection, a ring is more, more effective than a PD five medication.

Speaker 3 (19:27):

Well, big pharma's not gonna like that. And the heterosexual doctors have frankly been, they should have caught on this a long time ago. And if we're using rings, they would realize it. But a ring to dil in our internal data will keep, we were looking at D 2 cent data. So no one has studied D two ence. D two s is the time it takes for an erection to go down. We didn't measure time to go up because there's so many variables involved in that. Are you with a partner? Are you masturbating just by watching porn? You're drinking? We are just interested in the time it takes for erection to go down. 'cause That would be a measure of how much blood is held in the penis. So the ring alone, dala fill alone sustains an erection on the average of two, two to three minutes afterwards. The ring is about four and a half minutes long. And a ring plus the film is about five and a half minutes. So that those are men without Ed. So the takeaway message really is for all men would be, if you want to have a longer lasting, harder erection, put a ring on it and take a pill. Also, if you're a man who suffers prematurely and you want to keep thrusting afterwards comfortably, not uncomfortably, put a ring on it, take a pill. Mm-Hmm,

Speaker 1 (20:30):

<Affirmative>, you made the comment several times, and I don't wanna bypass it because I think it's worth talking about. 'cause I know somebody listening is wondering why are doctors so phobic about talking about sex? You know, sexual function is a leading indicator of your overall health and vitality. So looking at a male man or woman's sexual functioning, I think is vital to their overall health assessment. And if there's any difficulty there, it's essential to evaluate it because it corresponds to cortisol stress hormone levels, and there are other sex hormone levels and vascular function, cardiac function, but also as a preventative practice, just like drinking enough water, just like enough aerobic exercise, weight bearing exercise, sex, regular, active, pleasurable sex is vital in promoting vitality. So what are we missing? Because I know women are listening, why isn't my doctor talking to me about this? Why isn't my doctor talking to my partner about this? What is the problem with doctors here?

Speaker 3 (21:41):

I have so angry about this issue because we physicians are doing our patients a horrific disservice. I'm seven years old, I'm a doctor. Doctor should feel comfortable talking to me. I've never had a doctor warn me about the sexual side effects of medication. I've never had a doctor ask me about my marriage. Did not ask those questions. Is stupid. It's insensitive. Now. One reason is there are no boxes to check for those things. There's no way of making money addressing those things that they should. And, and, and it actually applies to urologists as well too. They often don't take complete sex stories with people, but just, Hey, here's a PD five medication. We'll do an ultrasound. You're not working. You need an implant. You're not helping a person that way. I completely agree with you. Studies show that if someone has sex every day, their cortisol levels significantly improve.

Speaker 3 (22:27):

If men were in control study, big study was done. Whales, I think of Scotland. If men have men with equivalent cardiovascular disease at age 70 start having sex twice a week, their risk of cardiac arrest goes down 50% over the next five years. The benefits are enormous. And we should be recommending to people to have more sex. We doctors make recommendations about diet, about exercise, about sleep, and we don't speak about sex. And if we do speak about it, we are embarrassed. We have, believe me, people wanna talk about it. My, my last year of emergency medicine clinical practice, I said, you know what, I'm just going to do what I was trained to do in medical school. I'm gonna add a sexual history to pretty much all my exams. Well, it turned out even people came in with an ankle sprain. Wanna talk about both? A lot of 'em just wanna talk about their sex lives and they don't wanna talk about this spouse who wants to tell you all about it.

Speaker 3 (23:15):

So people, men and women are hungry for this information. And they're, to your point, and I would like to bring it up, Dr. Dustin, we doctors are doing them a tremendous disservice. But I don't know if doctors, mostly doctors are even capable of discussing it because they're kind of, they're relative as, as, as a group. They're relatively pr and conservative in conservative sort. An old, an old fashioned kind of, you know, you know, meaning about sex. Before I got involved in this field, I never, I never went to sexual congresses of urology or society of sexual methodology, which is no one's talk. There's very little talk about pleasure. All the focus is on surgery and pills. And it's not focused on what most con what concerns most people, which is how do I maintain my sexual health if I, if I'm poor sexual health, how, what can I do to reverse it? It's, you know, the, the focus of the doctors is, is on things, I'll be blunt things that make them money. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (24:06):

That's unfortunate. And really sex has been relegated to the closet for everyone. And it's such a vital part of health prevention, of promotion, of vitality, prevention of disease. I would be remiss if I didn't ask about, you mentioned some causes and contributors to erectile dysfunction, sexual dysfunction in men. If we didn't talk about porn, because that's epidemic among men in the United States all over the world, globally, how does that affect, and I know there's some women listening who are like, my husband watches porn. Is that part of the problem? Well,

Speaker 3 (24:42):

I'm, I'm, I'm ambivalent about porn because for a lot of men it is an escape to a world where they, where they, where in fantasy they, they get what they want and the things that they're not getting from their partners, male or female partners. For some people porn is beneficial. And so are we gonna ban porn because it's also harmful to some people. I wish that people could discuss porn with their partners. That's really where the where it comes in porn becomes. It can become a window into finding out what someone else's fantasies are. And most people, too many people don't have sex regularly. They, so before I talk about, talk about porn, because I'm, I I'm gonna get, I'll get you the mail, the major male complaint about porn in a moment. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> men, too many people stop making love. Hmm. That's, they need to plan for pleasure.

Speaker 3 (25:23):

I mean, I, it it, I bring this up with guys at the gym or women, women too, which is like, Hey, you these, because they know what, they know what I'm doing. You, you let me know your love life is not satisfactory. How many hours do you spend working out a week? It'd be like, oh, 10, 14 hours. And I'll say, if you could just take two hours of that away and put that into your relationship, and they look at me like, men and women look at me like I'm nuts. Well, it's that, that that can't be done. I said, yeah, it can be done and should be done with planning. You know, a good love making is no more spontaneous than a good exercise session or, or a great meal meal. I don't just up a great meal

Speaker 1 (25:57):

Meal or a great vacation. I

Speaker 3 (25:58):

Don't, I don't go there, I don't, I don't know the refrigerator and say, Hey, what, what are the leftovers? Let's have leftovers again, <laugh>. And that's what, and that's, let's have rotisserie chicken for the third night in a row. And that's the problem with a lot of people sex <laugh>. They, they, they get bored with what they're doing with their partners and they don't talk about it.

Speaker 1 (26:15):

That analogy. But I love it. It's great. It's so true. You know, and, and I recently, I've really been diving the past six or so months into sacred sexuality and womb wisdom and the whole, you know, three types of orgasms or more, actually five, that women can have. And in diving into this, I've read a lot where the biggest problem for most women regarding sex and why they don't wanna have it, is because their men don't know how to properly work the machinery, how to please them, the different types of orgasms, what's required to get their motors going. And for them to become satisfied and actually to make love. They know how to wham bam, thank you man, kind of ma'am have sex, but they don't know how to make love. And so I'm wondering, where do guys supposed to learn this? Where

Speaker 3 (27:06):

Are women supposed to learn? I mean, you, you, because men have all the same complaints about women, men my age and men younger. It's like, oh, she's all, you know, she's, she, she thinks she tugs on my, my penis. Like, like, like, like an arm a machine or, you know, so people, this, this issue cuts both ways. Okay? And this is where people, people need to, people need to, my opinion, they, they need to, to communicate better about what they want. I mean, I, I'll get back to, I'll get back to, to my food analogy. Mm-Hmm. My wife is in the room right now. I don't know what she wants for dinner. And I could eat, you know, I, you know, so I, if, if I want, if I want to, if I wanna really make her happy with, for dinner tonight, I should explore what her, her ideas are.

Speaker 3 (27:45):

I think when it comes to sex, people kind of settle into both parties. I go down on her, she comes and then I penetrate her. That's kind of pretty, pretty standard and pretty boring sex that goes, that goes on for most people. This, they would, they would communicate. And that's what, that's, that's where I think porn can be valuable. People watch, if people explore porn together, they will expl expand their vocabulary for love, you know, for, you know, for love making. Also, there are a lot of guys for porn, porn is an outlet for them. The way shopping is for women and people like to say that, that porn built the web, but porn might have built the web originally. But shopping sustains the web, women do 85 to 90% of shopping online. Women have done studies showing that women get the same dopamine hits in their brain that men do from shopping, that men do from Washington porn. So gone to the point of Congress as people like to blame the other sex, but they need to, you know, examine what they're doing. And then they, then they need, they, they need to communicate better about what, about what their mutual needs are and be more. Right. Not saying nothing.

Speaker 1 (28:45):

That's fascinating information about shopping. I didn't know that's the case. So you're kind of equating the two.

Speaker 3 (28:51):

If women think it's ridiculous that a man wants to look at eight, eight bodies online, a guy might also think it's ridiculous that the woman needs to look at 25 shoes online. It's, it's, it's <laugh>. You know, it's, I mean, but meanwhile to your, you know, Dr. Doc, Dustin, to your point, they could be making love. They could be. They could be. And that's the problem. They're not talking, they're not not playing for pleasure. They're not communicating. In addition to which there are other problems, which circle back to which we, people are taking a lot of medications to interfere with their sexual performance with, you know, half the adult population being diabetic, hypertensive 20, 25% taking anti antis antidepressants. All these drugs have, have, and these diseases have significant impact upon, upon their sexual performance. And people. And the doctors don't do a good job about wanting people to know about the sexual side effects.

Speaker 3 (29:37):

So with data, about how long they last, how firm they can get, we have, we're starting to get some data about women with the, the, the trial protocol. We can, they, people can then say, you know what? My doctor prescribed 300 milligrams of whatever antidepressant, but I noticed that around 150 milligrams my erection starts to soften or I can't. So people, I mean of course we, we, we recommend to everyone if they don't make changes, but with their medications before, let's discuss it with healthcare providers. But I know people are doing it because the healthcare providers don't know about them, don't know about these issues and don't prioritize. You know, they, as you said, you said earlier, the least priority for most doctors is someone's sexual performance. But if someone's taking Sri SRI antidepressant and lisinopril for their blood pressure and they can't get it up, but they can't, you're not making, you're not helping, you're not helping the depressions very much and you're not helping their their partner either.

Speaker 1 (30:29):

Right? Sex is a natural antidepressant. So <laugh>, if you fix the sex, you probably wouldn't need the medication. So there's a woman listening now and she's really paying attention because she's thinking, wow, we don't have sex. We become like roommates. Either one of us could take it or leave it. Maybe she hasn't gotten out of hormonal poverty. So that's part of her issue. And if that's you, you definitely wanna listen up. 'cause <Laugh>, we are gonna run a special at her hormone club this winter if you wanna join us. But she knows her partner, she's observed that he's having some difficulties, whether obtaining an erection, maintaining having short or premature. How do you suggest that she approach this and talk to him? Because I've heard complaints from women before that when they've tried to bro this subject with their partners, that it has not been met with openness. So as a man, what would you say? How do we approach this with our partners?

Speaker 3 (31:30):

That's a great question. Hopefully you have some background information on the guy, because someone, it depends upon the person's age, but if, if it's, if it's a man over 45 or 50 it's the, the likelihood of that person having a physiological problem increases. So you really need to know what someone's blood pressure is, what their blood sugar, hemoglobin A1C is and the blood sugar, what their testosterone level is. There are, there are tests and then there are medications. I, you know, with, I've been impressed with the work that I've done over the last year, speaking to our patients, how many men could be helped just by, just in their medications and 'cause they're often taking multiple medications that that, that often a combination with alcohol are, are affecting their sexual performance. So you need to find out about the base, these, these baseline health factors.

Speaker 3 (32:16):

Another issue is these are all hard, such such just discussed, which is if a man can get it up with pornography and if a man is having erections at night when he's sleeping, he should be able to get up with his partner. And if he's not getting up with, with his partner, there's some issue in the relationship more, far more likely not some anxiety producing issue that's built up over the over built up over the years that need that, that needs to be addressed. Addressed. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> between the two of them or, or addressed with, with, with the benefit of, of therapy. That's where ring comes in handy because a lot of those men get, they can get up and then they lo then they lose the erection and then they avoid sex because they, they, they feel I've got it up with her, but I've lost it. It hasn't worked out. That's where ring ring comes with confidence build up because a male erection things very differently than a male without erection. And, and Cochran will keep the blood in the penis even if people are having an argument of some erection.

Speaker 1 (33:05):

Is the way for her to approach it with him to maybe say, honey, I have some concerns I'd like to talk to you about. Can we set aside some time this weekend and then secure a time and then just couch it as a health concern and say, you know, I've noticed a, B, C when we are making love and I'm concerned because I heard Dr. Justin talking on <laugh> Dr. Kirin show that this could have indications, meaning that you're at increased risk for heart disease, heart attack and early death, or any of the other things we've talked about. Or that the medications you're on might need to be adjusted. And I'm really wondering if we might be able to go to your doctor or if you could make an appointment with your doctor. Does that sound like a reasonable approach?

Speaker 3 (33:52):